What are these ebay pearls?

[Agustus-Collection]

Oh Dear, we know it all to well, especially if you are in Lombok/Indonesia and have a quiet beach day, you will be surrounded by 'fisherman' all of them have personally found recently genuine south sea pearls ( drilled and strung ) which they will offer you cheaply !!!!

None of them are south sea but genuine Chinese freshwater pearls, but you can get the same and better quality of course directly from china, instead of the 'handpicked' ones at the beach in Lombok...

be careful !

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OUTSTANDING...S_Fine_Necklaces_Pendants&hash=item3a76021d8a

 

[Ramona]

Hmm. Makes me wonder about the genuine, antique silver pots made in China that they sell for up to 2k.

 

[Marianne]

Holy Cow, those are barely industrial grade...... Sure hope no one bites!!!

 

[Katbran]

How do these people end up with 100% ratings ????

 

[Agustus-Collection]

Ramona.. well, i gone leave it at that!

HOLY COW is the best description! Marianne

Kat, hard to tell and sad to see !

 

[dkan 168]

My mum bought me some cheapo CFWPs when she was in HK, and they looked exactly like those in this eBay listing!!!

DK

 

[Amrita]

Gosh - I still can't figure out how people can get away with that kind of thing..

 

[perlinda]

The listing has been removed, someone must have notified the seller.

When I was in Lombok about a year ago, I was constantly surrounded by pearl sellers everytime I walked on the beach. However, none of them claimed their pearls to be south sea pearls, they even admit the pearls to be imported freshwater pearls when I asked about it. Probably the attitude has changed in recent years, or maybe they just realized I couldn't be deceived.

 

[Caitlin]

[FONT="]Dear majabali,[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT="]

Thank you for taking down the listing.

Anyone can join the forum. I personally will let your application through.

Just be sure your first two posts talk about this issue or something helpful and relevant. Remarks like "I like that" on the first post are deleted as spam. If you join as yourself, put up a post defending your position or asking, "What kind of of pearls are these?" you will get totally honest and professional answers without insults, from world known pearl professionals- as well as guesses from other members.

Ebay just asked me today how I thought I could make the pearl listings more honest and I told them what I think. Accurate description was the first suggestion I made.

It is against FTC regulations to call pearls anything but their true type. The FTC considers it fraudulent to call freshwaters South Sea or anything but freshwaters. I also told ebay that they have the power to stop this kind of mislabeling because the FTC would back them up.

I did not use you to prove my case, but I certainly could have.

I think Augustus charges high prices for the area, but try to prove they don't tell the absolute truth about their products. They do. And, people will pay more when they trust the vender.

I look forward to any legal actions you may take against me. I can easily prove fraudulent claims on your part, and, together, we could get eBay to put a stop to fraudulent listings like yours!

Looking forward to working together....
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT="]Truthfully claiming, as we did in our description of this lot of Lombok pearls, that we are not experts in this field, we have temporarily removed our listing.

That being said, there is NO way that pearls from China were working their way into Indonesia and being offered as Lombok pearls 14 years ago. That is simple fact.

However, in following some of the discussions on your forum about them, several inaccuracies as well as innuendo about our past offerings (where we do hold solid expertise) is evident...viz our silver items (where we have recognized expertise) being suggested, yet again, as Chinese made knock offs.

Your original e-mail to us was not at all in the keeping of what the eBay community is all about, rather, you offered a threat, and no objective reason for mandating that our south sea pearls from Lombok are other than what we've been told about them.

If we decide to re-offer this hoard of pearls again in the future, and if we encounter this sort of "good ole boy club" enthusiastic attack again, we will respond, using all legal means at our disposal...and that's something that Agustus-Collection (located in Bali), should be made fully aware.

Since it is near impossible to join your "boy's club" forum and make a rebuttal, we invite you to post our reply there...or look forward to a blog disparaging (as others already have)the validity of your forum.
[/FONT][/COLOR][B][COLOR=black][FONT="]- majabali[/FONT]

[FONT="]Dear majabali,[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][COLOR=black][FONT="]

Those are not South sea pearls. They are cheapo freshwaters, and if you keep this listing up I will report you to eBay.
[/FONT]

MAJABALI ​

CELEBRATING OVER 15 YEARS OF SELLING INTERNATIONALLY ON EBAY​

Fourteen years ago we purchased a large hoard of Lombok south sea baroque pearls, all strung as necklaces, from a pearl farmer in southwestern Lombok, Indonesia, who was ill and in need of surgery. We?ve had these put away all this time and this is the first time we have ever offered any for sale.

South Sea pearls are the most luxurious and rarest of pearls in the world. Their unique characteristics are a thick nacre, a satiny luster, and a subtle array of colors. Because the indigenous oysters live in warm South sea waters, they deposit a thick coating of nacre more quickly than oysters in cooler climates. This thick nacre produces a soft glow rather than a metallic sheen, and with the glow comes color.

This hoard consists of 30 necklaces or chokers, all averaging 41 cm in length or 16 + inches. Each string of pearls has between 41 and 45 pearls making a total in this hoard of approximately 1,250 pearls! The pearls average in size from 8 to 12 MM.

All the pearls are in excellent original condition with none having any scratches, chips or other problems. These pearls all have a very nice luster and grade on average AA. Their color ranges from platinum white to light golden champagne and each string is generally consistent with the color of the other pearls.

The total gram weight for these 30 necklaces is 1.5 kilo grams, or over three pounds of pearls!

Checking current market prices, our minimum bid is less than current auction wholesale when buying direct from a Lombok pearl farmer. If you check other eBay listings, there is currently an almost identical string of same size and number being offered with a US $750.00 BIN. On that basis the retail value of this entire hoard is easily $22,500.00.

We do not purport ourselves to be pearl experts but we have done our very best to describe this lot as accurately as possible. This lot is being offered with a money back guarantee if not completely satisfied and we are notified within 7 days of receipt of the lot.

Some results at live auctions:

-A slightly longer string and of pearls slightly larger:

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5948553 Sold for $1,750.00

-A longer string and consisting of 47 pearls: Sold for $8.500.00

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9772547

-A string of smaller pearls, 33 pearls total: Sold for $1,300.00

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6655225

-Another string of 31 pearls total: Sold for $3,750.00

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/379205
First time buyer with us? Please check our excellent feedback acquired over more than 15 years of offering authentic and superb objects of art and antiques on eBay. Our first shop opened in Springfield, Massachusetts in 1971. Most of our regular eBay buyers are dealers who have come to appreciate our reputation for integrity and exceptional offerings.
SHIPPING:
Due to the high value of this lot we will ship by EMS, (Express Mail Service), registered, and with tracking to most any place in the world at no additional cost.
More fine print and yada, yada, yada:
We are very sorry to have to add more details to our already long auction descriptions, but some recent developments makes this necessary.
International Buyers:
The majority of our longest term and most appreciated buyers are international, but as of late we have been experiencing payment problems with buyers from the Russian Federation, Ukraine and mainland China. If you?re bidding from there, and you?ve never done business with us before, please write to us before you bid.
Low or no feedback buyers:
If your feedback score is currently less than ten (10), please write to us before you bid.
A discussion prior to the end of an auction is always preferable to misunderstandings which arise after the fact. Many thanks for your understanding.

I think everything he says in this ad indicts him. He certainly acts like he knows what he is listing- in spite of the caveats, he pontificated enormously and showed examples of some real south sea pearls. In fact this is about the longest plop of bs one can find in such an ad.

 

[dkan 168]

IMHO, anyone starts to lose whatever credibility one has the moment he/she starts to name-call and claims to be prejudiced for whatever reason(s) without supporting evidence.

 

[Caitlin]

I agree, but they are just having a hissy fit because they have no logic to refute me. I would ignore it from a teenager, and, I have finally learned not to engage with online trolls, either.

 

[pearlescence]

Tilting at these sellers through their paypal accounts is more likely to succeed in the long term. Paypal stands for less nonsense and since it is harder to get a new bank account it is harder to switch to a new identity when your duff selling is expsed.
Remember that duff sellers aren't just based in China though, Amanda and I had a couple based in GB selling in the same way - hard to tell if they were just gullible 'also conneds' or deliberate.
Half the problem is that buyers will buy any old rubbish and believe it is the real thing and that they got a stupendous bargain.

 

[pattye]

Great work, Caitlin!

I certainly hope we can get ebay's ear somehow. I do report stuff, which we all know can be more than a full time job. Wish the CPAA would take up this cause~

Please leave it up in both places!

 

[perlinda]

Caitlin, that's a very good reply from you, great work as usual! Majabali could have been misinformed about the pearls, but it's seller's responsibility to find out what exactly the products they are selling and describe it truthfully. They admitted they're not experts, but why got so defensive in the end?

I'm not sure about his "fact" since I'm not familiar with the history of CFWP in Indonesia, but I was told before that there used to be some freshwater pearl farms here. The pearls were cultured in small ponds, and the guy who told me said "I saw the farms with my own eyes". But Chinese imports killed the production and there are most likely no more FWP farms now in Indonesia. I took the story with grain of salt, but the guy isn't FWP seller so he didn't have reason to lie to me.

Anyway, that's not very important, because regardless majabali's pearls are Indonesian or Chinese, they're definitely NOT south sea pearls as advertised.

 

[Caitlin]

More here:

At the worst, our listing wasn't fraudulent, but rather could have been inaccurate or erroneous, of that could be documented. We are yet to be convinced that our pearls aren't south sea pearls from Lombok, as all we have right now is declarations, and accusations without any solid reasons why you deemed these as Chinese fresh water pearls.

Fraud includes intent to deceive, mislead or to cheat. Moreover, our listing made it clear that we aren't experts in this field, as well as offering a money back guarantee for any reason of dissatisfaction by any buyer.

Your last reply was going fairly well as a read until coming to, "I can easily prove fraudulent claims on your part." You can't prove fraud as an intent, and suggesting that you can is simply more liable and slander (depending on the laws of any specific country). But don't take my word on that, merely ask any attorney.

It only seems to us that your responses and original e-mail, if given in any form of good faith, would have included reasons as to why our pearls were deemed to be Chinese fresh water pearls...and not south sea pearls, in other words, some guidance from self declared "experts such as you declared yourself. No such reasons or explanations were offered, rather, just more and more declarations and accusations.

Knowledge is a gift, and as such, it should be freely offered to those who ask for it. Abusing the gift of knowledge and wantonly accusing those, who in their best efforts make mistakes, is criminal in itself.

Thanks, but no thanks for your invitation to join your forum. Pearls are not our "regular thing" and moreover, there is no basis for us to expect even a gram of trustworthiness from you. If you have any balls, or integrity, you are totally free to post this, and our last replies to your eBay e-mails on your forum. That's up to you, but we are very certain that you won't.
- majabali

And now, having just taken a look at your forum, and the string relating to this topic, it is more compelling that you post your responses to us, as well as our responses to you.

And, can we cut out the "Dear XXX" BS and be totally open and transparent here, please?

Hello
My name is Caitlin Williams. I don't have any balls. Perhaps you made sexist remarks to insult me and take the topic of discussion to my balls and not your claims. I accused you of fraudulent claims- intent has nothing to do with it. You got targeted because your claims were the pinnacle of dishonest claims about freshwater pearls the person who started the thread had ever seen- and that is going some.

I have never used my ebay name on P-G- no one knows me by that name, BUT I did use my real name, which most people on eBay do not know,, including you. My real name is Caitlin. That is far more transparent than my ebay name which are made up letters.

I upset you by telling the truth about what your pearls are and you can't respond by proving what they aren't, so you grab at red herrings to confuse the issue.

The issue is not my transparency, but yours. Any pearl expert can tell you what those pearls are and they aren't South Sea, they are freshwater. They were barely culturing this kind of pearl 14 years ago. They arrived out of China only, so your dating may not be wrong, but your assumption they didn't make it to your country, obviously is. As soon as they arrived, they spread all over Asia and the world in one season, mostly spread out of China by people who went to the Hong Kong show and were grabbed up as the latest style of CFWP to arrive on the scene.Then in the last ten years cultivation has reached extremely high qualities, which drops the price on those ringed pearls from the early days of Chinese cultivation.

If you want to learn a lot about pearls, there is a book- the best on the subject so far, by Elisabeth Strack of Germany. It is called "Pearls" and is 700 pages of the most complete info on pearls available. It is published by Ruhle-Diebener-Verlag and is often available through the GIA.

I believe there is a branch of the GIA in Bangkok run by Ken Scarratt. You can try to prove us wrong by taking them over there and asking if they are worth evaluating as naturals. No doubt he will say , "no", "because they are freshwater pearls". I doubt he would take your money to say that.

 

[Caitlin]

That particular lot was so overpriced, that I can't imagine someone buying it just to get PayPal on the case- though it would have worked for cairnspearls58- who by the way, has cut way back on his Tahitian claims and is now saying the pendant I wrote to him about is freshwater- and the price has been cut in half!!! to $10.00.

Majabali put such a high price on those pearls, that he should have trotted over to the GIA and checked what he had, first. But if he sold them at that price, it would have been a scandal,as most people who make fraudulent claims do not charge much above the Freshwater price. This lot was egregious because it was priced much closer to the SS price, which was at least 10x their value.

 

[Caitlin]

The CPAA would certainly add weight to the cause!!!!

 

[perlinda]

Well... If majabali really wants to know about the pearls, all he has to do is just ask...

The pearls are already drilled, pick one of them and check for nucleus with a loupe. He can find the answer he wants easily.

 

[Caitlin]

If cultured SS, there will be a nucleus. If cultured FW, there will be no nucleus in ringed barrel shaped pearls. Some of the newest largest FW do have nuclei, but we are all agreed that the ringed pearls are from 10-14 years old when they did not use nuclei and pearls that large- even if barrel-shaped, were the latest improvement in Chinese techniques. They have gone so much farther than that, since.

 

[pattye]

This particular lot of pearls looks like tissue cultured freshwater, so no bead nucleus would be visible.