The Bain of Sellers - Buyer Remorse

[Bodecia]

THIS IS A KIND OF AN EXTENTION OF BUYING AND SELLING ON EBAY. BUT MORE OF A SELLER'S COMPLAINT

Up until now I have had a pretty good run selling on eBay. I don't mean I was making a fortune and until the last few weeks just might have broken even but I had never come across "Buyer's Remorse" before even though I saw it mentioned in many seller's Listings

Because I had never complained unless an items was totally not what it was supposed to be or photos were copied from another site etc. I really didn't understand because I figured I bid/won then I paid for it and if when it arrived it was not what I expected I checked the listing and many times I found I was looking for what I hoped it would be rather than what the seller said it was or might be. So that is not Buyer Beware it is more like Buyer don't wish for more than is Offered. So one wins them and wears them.

But in the last couple of days a buyer has been giving me hell. She loved the ring, emailed me so many times before the finish of the auction. She was so wrapped and did pay more than I expected although it was and is lovely. I added a really nice 14k gold, pearl and Emerald Pendant then she had paid $9 for shipping and I said I thought I could send it EMS and insured for about $25 so I would pay the rest. It actually cost me an extra $50 ... or so. From Australia to America it took 2 days. - Wow that is a record.

Before a quick summary - this lady asked me for all kinds of info on the ring include every measurement you can think of. Loads of questions until the end of the auction and then after the auction as to how and when it would arrive.

Then I received an email from her.

Wow, that was fast. Thank you so much BUT the ring doesn't look good on my finger as I am very petite.. It looks bigger than I thought on my finger. Not your fault, your photos were good. Your photos made it look like it would suit me, but it doesn't. Can you offer it to the under bidder.

And so on and so on for 48 hours - with me getting very little sleep and getting a little more than pissed off but trying not to show it.

You may ask why don't I refund her money. Well no I won't. I paid an extra $50 to get it to her when she wanted it and as safety as she wanted it. I added a pendant that in shops would sell for over $100. My photos and descriptions on the list and to her via email were top grade. I even took macro photos that showed inclusions.

She said she doesn't want to send it back really. She just doesn't want it now. She maybe could sell it on ebay herself but she doesn't want to go to that trouble.

I have offered solutions i.e. I will find you a petite one that suits you. Send it back and then I can offer it to the under bidder. eBay has now banned her from contacting the under bidder and intially and now she wants me to do that although that is impossible because I don't have it to offer. Then she said I could make the offer and she could post it to the new buyer. Well, that doesn't sound to safe to me. She has no reputation to protect but I do.

If she keeps up emailing me I might have to contact ebay although I shudder to do that.

A question I do have for other eBay sellers out there is this type of thing common place. If it is it is no wonder some sellers put all kinds of conditions in there listings.

I have now offered this lady to send it back to me and I will resell if for her in my dawncee333 eBay shop. But now all of a sudden I haven't heard from her in over an hour. I wonder why this is.

Any advise from any sellers that have run into this kind of problem would be appreciated. I think she might be running some kind of a scam and hope I am sucker enough to come in on it. My last email to her said something to the effect that I thought she should tell me the truth if she had overspent and was in trouble so we could work something out.

Now nothing for an hour after email after email. Her suggestion of me reselling it and her posting it to the new buyer sounds very iffy to me.

Dawn
dawncee333

 

[pattye]

Hi Dawn,

I have bought alot on ebay, but have not sold as yet. However, I agree DO NOT relist the item and expect her to post it. It is not your problem if she exceeded her funds for some reason, and then "changed her mind." You went above and beyond by paying the extra shipping and sending the additional pendant. If she returns the ring, the shipping is on her. You have already done more "nice" things for her than you should have. Especially with antique and used items, there is seldom a return policy, if they are as shown and described correctly.

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[gravityalwayswins]

Hi Dawn,

I'm not a seller but my brother is a big seller. I asked him about this since as a buyer, it seemed very sketchy that she is unwilling to send it back to you. He agreed - no way you should relist without the item in hand, and it does sound like a scam, rather than an innocent buyer's remorse situation. Truth be told, you gave her excellent customer service. If she gives you negative feedback, you can reply to that feedback with something like, "Buyer wouldn't return item to me but still wanted me to reauction it." - something that would give feedback readers a glimpse into the buyer's issues so hopefully they don't poorly judge you for this one situation.

 

[Bodecia]

Thanks pattye & gravityalwayswins it does doesn't it

You are both right of course and I do know this. I have bent over backward trying to help her and I was totally honest in my listing and the photos were top notch, some of the best I have been able to take.

It feels like more than buyer's remorse now to me. It feels like she is stalking me online. I have explained to her why I cannot offer to another buyer something I do not have any longer but it is as though she doesn't even read it. Now ebay won't let her emails go thru to the second bidder which is not surprising. But if she has been hassling the second bidder anything like she has me then even if she did return it I could not re-offer it to that person. I am starting to think I could not bear to see it again even though I loved it. I don't make second offers anyway as I believe half of them are scams of some sort. It would be different if an item was listed as the buyer having X amount of them. But not a designer or antique/vintage item. Doesn't sit well with me.

I was going to send her an email saying to return it and I would sell it for her but I don't know now. I don't trust her anymore. But I probably will still make the offer but yes any shipping will be on her and I think she will have some cheek to keep my rather expensive present but she probably would anyway. But I just don't care about any of that as long as I can get this bitch off of my back. I have lost count of the number of times she has emailed me in little of 24 hours. Have lost count of hours for that matter and sleep.

Thanks for asking your brother for his advice. I am just not experienced enough with this type of situation and I do believe in good or excellent customer service but this is getting totally ridiculous.

There is no way I will offer the item when I don't have it. That is Fraud and I have tried to explain it to her but it is like water of a ducks back.

Well wish me luck. I wondered how many other sellers have had this kind of problem. She must have know she wasn't going to keep it before it arrived, that is how fast her email was. No thinking about whether it would suit her, or anything. Just bang. Oh, thanks Dawn but now I don't like it. It doesn't suit my finger. Oh boy.

Dawn - going to pull some hair out

PS
This should be put down in the trials and tribulations of an eBay seller. Not an all one way street my any means.

 

[Heidi]

Hi Dawn,

I'm not a seller but my brother is a big seller. I asked him about this since as a buyer, it seemed very sketchy that she is unwilling to send it back to you. He agreed - no way you should relist without the item in hand, and it does sound like a scam, rather than an innocent buyer's remorse situation. Truth be told, you gave her excellent customer service. If she gives you negative feedback, you can reply to that feedback with something like, "Buyer wouldn't return item to me but still wanted me to reauction it." - something that would give feedback readers a glimpse into the buyer's issues so hopefully they don't poorly judge you for this one situation.

This sounds like great advice to me. I'm a longtime eBay shopper and when I look at a seller's feedback it's always obvious when there is some scammer on one half of a transaction.

In my experience selling jewelery in the retail environment, buyers who had remorse were quick to recognize their responsibility when I reminded them of the policies. In stark contrast to the scammers and thieves.

Stand firm and your honesty and good record will win out. It does sound like a situation for contacting eBay and possibly blocking the buyer from contacting you. That much activity really would qualify as harassment unless you were striking up a friendship with the person. Plus she just sounds shady. No way should you relist without the item in hand.

 

[pernula]

Dawn,

Good luck to your ebay business and dealing with this buyer. The other members gave you great advice and since I have only shopped on eBay once so far I have nothing to offer in that regard except for best wishes.

This is off topic but kind of related to eBay and internet shopping in general. I guess I don't understand why sellers send along free gift. IMHO it seems to send a subtle message that the item on its own is not good enough or that the buyer overpaid and so the seller can afford to send along more jewelry or gemstone freebies. Something informational like DVD, calendar, if sent only once, would not give the same message.

Cheers,
Pernula

 

[jerin]

Hi Dawn,

it just strikes me - could that woman be a so called "buyer" who never ever had any intention to pay for the item and tricks the seller into sending the goods and then making up a lot of emails, just to cover up her trick? In reality she means to keep this jewelry anyway and if that is the case, she perhaps has tried the same on other sellers as well, who are no "power sellers" as yet, as perhaps those have better ways to get to her?

Just thoughts, I am no bidder, so have no experience as yet!
Just don?t let her get the upperhand and stay your ground!
I too think it would be fraudolous to sell an item that simply is not there! And even if she is just a confused customer with perhaps to little money and not wanting to admit it, you have done everything possible!
And knowing that, don?t give her any more help!

 

[silverseajewelry]

Hey Dawn,

Sorry you are having so much trouble - this is a pain in the &^$%.

I agree with what others said...though I have been known to also bend over backwards to accomodate ridiculous requests, so I understand your efforts. I wouldn't offer to do any more than you already have done.

BTW, I have been holding earrings for a buyer for almost 2 weeks who said she maxed out her paypal credit line and is waiting paypal to verify her new credit card. Is this reasonable? How long should I wait?

 

[Heidi]

Hey Dawn,

Sorry you are having so much trouble - this is a pain in the &^$%.

I agree with what others said...though I have been known to also bend over backwards to accomodate ridiculous requests, so I understand your efforts. I wouldn't offer to do any more than you already have done.

BTW, I have been holding earrings for a buyer for almost 2 weeks who said she maxed out her paypal credit line and is waiting paypal to verify her new credit card. Is this reasonable? How long should I wait?

You've been more than generous. I'd send an email and tell her that if she isn't able to pay within 24 hours you are putting the earrings up for sale to the general public.

In a bricks and mortar store, if a credit card is refused, we'd hold the item the standard amount of time - usually 24 hours. If it was a great customer we'd extend that period. No reason to do anything different online, really.

 

[Nerida]

I recently returned something to a trusted vendor. I was trying to decide between two pieces, and by the time I had made my decision, the preferred one had sold. So I purchased the second one - coming to Australia from the US. Just before it arrived (usually about 5 days), the vendor contacted me to say that the purchaser of the other piece, another trusted client, found the piece too large for her, and wanted to return it - was I interested? I am sure the whole process was annoying for the vendor - but I have to say that good grace on the part of all three of us meant that it was all done very smoothly. I looked at my lovely item when it arrived, then quickly rewrapped and returned it to the US (express, and insured, at my expense, I think obviously), and the other piece came to me quite quickly (it's perfect!). I think that's what happens when dealing with great vendors, and honest buyers. In your case Bodecia, you clearly don't have an honest buyer, or that ring would be winging its way back to you quickly. I think you have a scammer, and that's horrible! From my understanding, she did pay you for the ring, is that correct? If she doesn't return in, then there is no chance for a refund for her!

BTW I probably agree with the thought that if the free gift is too substantial, it suggests (to me) that as a buyer, I may have paid too much! I do enjoy the gifts I am occasionally sent, but they should be proportional to the $$ spent.

Good luck, and also silverseajewelry I think you have already waited longer than is reasonable. You are still running businesses, so think business-like and contact the buyer to say you can't hold them any longer - she will either quickly come up with the funds, or admit that it's all too much for her and probably was never going to.

Nerida.

 

[robinmce]

hi Bodecia
I'm fairly new to ebay buying and I would prefer sellers to allow returns if the item just isn't for me. But I would certainly expect to pay for return postage myself . Anyone who wants a refund without returning an item is a fraud. Can you imagine telling a store to refund you while you keep the item?? Not likely.
If she wants to sell it herself fine..........but to have you sell it on your website and trust her to send it to the winner is just NUTS. Why would you trust her? It's your reputation on the line....not hers if she doesn't send it. RIP OFF.!!!
I'm sorry you're having to deal with this.
Robin

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Dawn--

No way should you sell an item that is not in your possession on the promise that the person you are selling it for will ship it to the other buyer. If they don't-- or if they do and it doesn't arrive for whatever reason-- guess who is responsible to refund the new buyer? You. And whose feedback will take a hit? Yours, of course.

And if she does return the ring to you, she must return the pendant you sent as a gift as well. Nor should she get back her initial shipping fee. This was not your fault but hers.

Hang on to all her emails. If they are just in your eBay messages, be sure they are forwarded to your email so they won't expire and be deleted. You may need them if she tries to claim the item is SNAD.

I would politely tell her that you are unable to assist her in selling the ring but that she is welcome to use your photo to resell it herself.

And if you have not already posted on the eBay Sellers discussion board, get yourself a posting ID (all you need is a new email address for the new ID) and you will find them very helpful.

I don't sell, but my husband does occasionally, and I find the discussion boards there very informative.

 

[gravityalwayswins]

To quote Pearl_dreams:
I would politely tell her that you are unable to assist her in selling the ring but that she is welcome to use your photo to resell it herself.
-----------------------------

Great point, Pearl_dreams. Let her sell it, but allow her to use the pics. At this point, given her stalking, I'd be tempted to refuse to let her return it to you anymore. You gave her that chance, and she didn't take it. Her problem now - but you can still provide the pics.

I certainly don't envy you in this position. It's frustrating to think there's a scam around every corner, whether you're a buyer or seller. All the more reason places like this help where users provide others with positive and negative vendor feedback!

Best Wishes!
Carol

 

[pearlescence]

Hi
This problem of buyers faffing around is not confined to eBay. I meet it in my online shop (where European law says we must give a refund on return of goods in proper condition). for example, someone just returned four clasps because the garnets in them were not the right colour...
And when I am selling in person I have learned by now that some people just want to be like Olivia and taste the items without buying - they will take up hours of time and block the passage of real buyers without a qualm.
Then there are the 'be-backs' who never come back
I stick to delivering exactly what the buyer has bought, no more and no less. I found that if I sent an extra it was seldom acknowledged and did not seem to have any effect on follow-on business.
But as to that specific non-buying buyer - I agree totally. She gets her money back when you get the ring back.

 

[jshepherd]

I certainly don't envy you in this position. It's frustrating to think there's a scam around every corner, whether you're a buyer or seller. All the more reason places like this help where users provide others with positive and negative vendor feedback!

There are so many scams online now that vendors must stay on their toes or they can and will lose out big time. A lot of them are no longer as easy to spot as the wife of the Nigerian oil minister that needs to get $20 million out of the country and is offering you 30% for your assistance.

A more recent scam that we have uncovered and have been fighting are freight forwarders. Scammers know that there are some countries merchants will not ship to. These are countries that have a high rate of credit card fraud. For us the main culprit countries are in Western Africa, Eastern Europe, and South East Asia, most notably Indonesia. Over the last decade we have received hundreds if not thousands of orders from these areas and very close to 100% of them have been fraudulent orders placed with stolen credit card numbers.

A freight forwarding service looks like a genuine address in a "green" country such as Hong Kong or Singapore. The goods are dispatched to the service and then forwarded to the destination country in what we call the red zone.

The scammers have gotten so adept at hiding what they are, they have even gone as far as to create Web sites that make them look legit. Take this Web site for example. We recently received an order from a supposed manager at this company. http://www.aseantradinggood.net/

If you do a google search on the address you find that it is supposedly a company listed in different business directories, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="1779+Geylang+Bahru+#01-08+"

By taking apart the address and doing some specific searching, it is possible to discover that the company is actually located at a freight forwarding office, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q="Bahru+#01-08"+forwarding

The whole setup is a scam. There is no company in Singapore. Their sole purpose is to convince merchants to send products to the forwarding service and have the forwarding service send the stolen products to a different country, most likely Indonesia in our experience.

Selling online is a dangerous game and sellers need to be very wary and careful. Scam artists especially prey on smaller sellers, those without the experience to be immediately suspicious of anything that looks like a red flag, sellers who want to believe the sale is genuine because it is so needed.

I know this is starting to go off topic, but for the sellers out there here are a few things that pose a "red flag".

The fraudulent ?customers? usually email in advance, asking if we will accept an international credit card and ship to their country. This is the first red flag.

In the first email they will often ask about random products, even pieces you do not carry. This is the second red flag.

They ALWAYS ask for expedited shipping and email every day asking whether the items had shipped and about a tracking number. This is the third red flag.

They often order multiple pieces ? two of this, three of that. This is the fourth red flag.

The total order is often large. This is the fifth red flag.

The communications are often posted from someone with a western name, but the English and sentence structure is off. This is more than a red flag, this is a dead giveaway.

Finally, if you get the gut-feeling something feels wrong, it usually is.

 

[pattye]

Thanks, Jeremy,

It is amazing to what level scams go these days. Much good info.

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[Caitlin]

We ought to flag Jeremy's post. It has information I have never heard before. How awful to find out the hard way!

Jeremy, I can't remember if you have a chapter on fakes and frauds in your book without getting up and getting it.......

Someone should start a thread on fakes and frauds they have seen.

 

[Bodecia]

Thank you all and especially Jeremy and Caitlin but really all. I am still battling through this but am fairly upset by it all as there were flags and I put them down to the wrong reason. That she was just so friendly, so nice, that I didn't do things I should have and did things I shouldn't have.

But I don't feel up to going into it all right now. And I am feeling pretty stupid sometimes I am way to trusting because I want to believe in the goodness of people but the fact is that many of them are not good and fair. My gut feelings did kick it but I read it all wrong and thought it was just me because I had just had an operation and was not feeling great. At the moment it is just too complicated for me to handle and I will NOT let her scam me further, but in saying and doing that it means it will all not end for some time.

I do realise this is way of our beloved pearl thread although there is a relationship to buying and selling.

Dawn

 

[Caitlin]

I think we are tapping into an important subject. It has everything to do with buying and selling, which is a topic we are beginning to see a need for- for both buyers and small businesses.....

If we get enough posts on just tips for buying and selling, it might even need its own forum, someday.

 

[pearlescence]

Have you mentioned her feedback rating - I can't spot it in your posts?