The Bain of Sellers - Buyer Remorse

I googled the terms " Black Hills gold CCO mark" and on the page that comes up, the 4th item down is the website with the CCO trademark information for Coleman. It took me less than a minute to find it.

Regarding zero feedback bidders, we all began with a feedback of zero. eBay doesn't provide a way to routinely block zero feedback bidders.

That zero feedback bidder on Dawn's auction bidder probably would not have been questionable if bidders' IDs weren't being blocked. Before eBay began blocking the IDs, bidders could research the other bidders on an auction if they suspected one was a shill rather than a legitimate bidder. Newbies in particular have a tendency to nibble-bid because they don't understand eBay's proxy bidding system. That may make them exasperating, but not necessarily sinister.
 
Let me repeat her caveats from that description
I have not had it checked by a Gemmolist but a jeweller thought it was an Emerald when I took it in ages ago. Can't guarantee it but I am fairly sure. I originally bought it from an Antique store as an antique and Emerald ring.
AND
Measurements - The Emerald ? is 7 x 5 mm
Those two sentences would have caught my notice and skepticism that it was an emerald. If you can't guarantee it, I won't bid as though it is an emerald . I would bid no more than the weight of the 10k gold. (10k is less than half gold.) Maybe a little over that if I liked the workmanship.

If I did research the hallmark, I would tell the seller what I found. I found the coleman company about 2/3rds down the page on a inquiry about Black Hills gold jewelry.

The buyer has made over 700 buys and sells on eBay. She just lost her good sense. Then she wouldn't send it back. That means the sale is final. Now she is selling it with new fantasies in the description. Lordy, lordy. What next? If she throws Dawn a negative. I would put in number for the buyer's relisting for sale. She knows she'll get a negative back and will probably not give any feedback rather than risk a negative in return.

Really, eBay buyers need to do their own checking and bid accordingly and check out the competition on their bids.

I have about 80+ feedbacks and I already learned my lessons
 
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I agree, the buyer didn't use good sense in bidding on an auction with red flags-- and waffling about what the stone is, is a big red flag.

The title of the listing had the word "emerald". At the very least, that is keyword spamming if the item being sold is not an emerald.

But then, how many would look if it were listed as "Unidentified Green Stone"-- even if that would have been more honest?
 
I am not Dawn's lawyer, and all of this is Monday morning quarterbacking. If only....
Or Diamondbacking, ;)(which is what I often do.) I think Trace Atkins could have won Celebrity Apprentice if he had not let the Baldwin brother talk him out of using the best picture in the entire ad campaign for men's personal products. That picture would have won them the competition, possibly even the whole contest. :( If only........


But I think Dawn believed it was an emerald, two people told her it was and it had inclusions. But she put the caveats in because she couldn't guarantee it and maybe did not think of looking up the hallmark.

This would have ended immediately if the buyer had sent it back.

If only, if only.......
 
I have seen a fair number of black hills gold rings. There is a lot of hand work as the colored gold leaves are applied separately. Really, this ring looks to be quite nice quality to me. A total gram weight on the piece would also help. The leaves are often 12k gold.

The stone is most likely a manmade stone called"helenite" which is made from Mt. St. Helen's ash. I couldn't tell you the method or how much actual ash or anything like that. It is also being made in a pink color. I have heard some infer that the "gem" is mined out of the ground in that color, which is absolutely not the case.

It is true that Carolyn Ehret has a no return policy, however she does state 100% satisfaction. I think that encourages more thoughtful buying, especially on high end items, and good communication on each purchase.

I think Dawn did post many photos, as does Carolyn, which greatly aid in evaluating the item. ( BTW, I have 281 feedback)

Just an opinion, Pattye
so many pearls, so little time
 
Which still makes you wonder why the buyer bid up to $455 in the first place...
 
What is happening Now - thanks to those who support me.

What is happening Now - thanks to those who support me.

From Seller: on 20/04/2008 03:20 PDT

This I have just sent to PayPal - as for support I will read and answer emails as I can but I DO have a migraine, just came on today and it is hard to see let alone read. For any that think I was in the wrong. Well think what you will. Dawn

Dear PayPal,This buyer is not being truthful. I suggested she post the ring back to me along with the gift (value $50 - $75) that I included and that I would give her refund except for postage. I said to her that I would have to deduct the postage that I paid off as I paid out an extra $50 plus in postage which she did not refund to me. But she said it was too much hassle to send the ring back. I am assuming that the ring is not old as she stated but I don't have a way as yet of proving it. Initially she emailed me as soon as it arrived and stated that it didn't suit her, looking too large on her hand and wanted me to make a Second Chance Offer to the underbidder even though I did not have the ring and she did not intend to send it back. I have the emails to prove this. She wanted the underbidder to pay her for the ring and she would send it to them. I believe she is running some kind of scam. Even after all this I offered for the sake of peace to refund $150 taking into account the $50 plus dollars I was out for postage and with her keeping the valuable gift. She declined this and gave me 24 hours to pay her $200. The reason I waited after that was because I wanted to go over our emails which were numerous prior to her bidding and after. I did inform her of this ? as I said to her I wanted to be fair to both of us. This is when she got nasty and threatened me with contacting eBay. So I have been negotiating all along. At first I believed she was just rather na?ve when asking for me to make a Second Chance Offer ? which would be fraud on my part but after going over her emails and looking up her history as a buyer and seller with 3 accounts that I can track I thought it may be possible that it was some kind of scam and I should be very careful before doing anything. I thought that no matter what I did this woman wanted to hurt me and leave back feedback and I still believe this. Will leave rest of my email on another - "ran out of space"

Second email to PayPal

The whole episode has been a terrible experience and I just want my ring, gift and postage costs back so that I can put it behind me. She refuses to post the ring back. With 3 accounts as a seller and buyer she could not possibly so na?ve as to believe I could offer a ring that I did not have in my possession. That IS fraud.Maybe she has already sold the ring. She did list it, once that I saw as a genuine antique and as a genuine emerald, which I did not. This she did immediately upon deciding that the ring didn't suit her, nothing to do with age of ring or anything else. It appeared simply like Buyer's Remorse. She had said she loved it. When I saw the way she had it listed I advised her that she shouldn't say those things if she believed it was relatively modern and that I never said that a gemmologist had checked it out for being an emerald. (She had said I had) I wasn't sure and listed as such although I did think it was vintage to some degree. I am not sure what to do at this stage and would welcome advise from PayPal and eBay. It seems to me that there is something seriously wrong with this whole transaction. I believe she wanted to sell the ring to the under bidder and then not send it leaving me with the problem. How can she not return the ring and pendant to me and yet I still have the monies frozen. This hardly seems fair and is an open invitation for buyers to commit fraud. I truly need help from eBay and PayPal with this as I find it very distressing and it is stopping me from listing and selling. It has made me very ill and I now have a genuine migraine, with blurred vision and throwing up. I have always bent over backwards to help my buyers with any problem of which there have been very few. I can only remember two very minor ones in the past several years, neither a complaint but a buyer needing help, which I complied with. I have had to cut and paste these emails due to migraine. Yours Truly, dawncee333
 
Hi Dawn,

I think that you have done everything possible to settle things with this buyer and I advise you to wait for a response from Paypal and Ebay.:)
 
Dawn I'm glad to hear from you - I hope everything works out okay with ebay for you and that some resolution can be reached... as Inge said, you've done much to correct the situation - I also hope you feel well again soon!
 
Hi Dawn,
I do hope that you get to resolve this satisfactorily. I can't think what the buyer is up to.
I presume from your latest posts that the buyer has filed a claim with Paypal?
If so, that appears to be pretty underhanded. If there is a dispute in process, the ring is subject to the decision of Paypal.
Surely by putting the ring up for sale she has accepted that the ring is hers and that her transaction with you is complete?
Having said that, if the claim is for significantly not as described, she will probably win the dispute - but Paypal will insist on her returning the ring to you by electronically trackable means at her own expense.
 
Hi Dawn, glad to see you posting here.
I think you did everything you could.
If she wanted a refund obviously she needs to send the ring back.
I guess you just have to wait and it will work out via ebay and paypal.
I looked at your listing and you were clear that it was questionable if the stone was an emerald.........if she wasn't as clear as you shame on her!
Can't help her side of the dispute any!
:)
Robin
 
Hi Sueki,

on most what you said I would agree wholeheartedly but in my opinion this buyer has forfeited every right to give back the ring and getting back money as she listed it on her own - already when doing that she has confirmed that the ring is hers.

She should have sent it straight back to Dawn and then she would have got her money back - besides that I think the listing of Dawn said clearly that no 100% guarantee was given and in that case the buyer takes an item with the risk being on her side. I think buyers too have no right to treat sellers any way they like - the respect should be on both sides!

And as Dwan has saved all emails I think both Paypal and Ebay are going to judge on the strength of those.
 
I agree with Inge. She did not send it back, in fact she listed it! That sounds like a completed sale to me.

I hope she didn't complain to PayPal and I am sure your emails will reveal what really happened.

Did you contact eBay about that 0 feedback bidder? I don't think you had control of that, but I am worried what eBay could think.......Good Luck. What a nasty lesson.

Now- no more bending backwards, just stand straight and do exactly what is required.
 
I don't know of any way a person can determine that an eBay member has more than one ID or what those other IDs are. But if she does, there is nothing wrong with this. It is permitted, and common.
 
That is true,
and people change their names when the old one gives them away to too many dissatisfied buyers.

I remember looking up previous names for a Chinese pearl seller. They had had about 5 of them and also some negative feedbacks. I thought they were trying to make people think they were a different seller because many buyers don't know you can look up name changes.

I think a stronger argument is that she knows the ropes (or should know them)because she has over 700 feedbacks.

Worst case scenario is that Dawn will get the ring back- and make a refund minus postage, the best would be that the arbitrators will decide the sale was complete by virtue of the buyer refusing to send it back and then listing it.
 
I agree with Inge. She did not send it back, in fact she listed it! That sounds like a completed sale to me.

I hope she didn't complain to PayPal and I am sure your emails will reveal what really happened.

Did you contact eBay about that 0 feedback bidder? I don't think you had control of that, but I am worried what eBay could think.......Good Luck. What a nasty lesson.

Now- no more bending backwards, just stand straight and do exactly what is required.

I'm fairly new to ebay but I don't understand what the fuss is over someone else bidding on the ring?
(unless a schill which is highly unlikely and I don't believe).
Isn't that what ebay is about?...bidding for things. ...against other people.....and knowing what price you will pay...ie not going above what you think is reasonable...

Robin
 
Hi Robin,

normally there would be no fuss if it had been Dawn listing the ring but to that end she would have needed to get it back from the buyer first - and that lady chose to keep it and list it on her own - if she did not want it, surely the right thing would have been sending it back, getting back her money minus shipping/postage and that would have been it!
 
Thanks Jerin.
I agree that she should have sent it back if unhappy and understand that Bodecia offered a refund if returned.
But there have been some comments about the zero feedback person bidding and some implication they did something wrong..
and I don't understand what that is about....
 
I'm fairly new to ebay but I don't understand what the fuss is over someone else bidding on the ring?
(unless a schill which is highly unlikely and I don't believe).
Isn't that what ebay is about?...bidding for things. ...against other people.....and knowing what price you will pay...ie not going above what you think is reasonable...
Well, yeah.
But is also about fraudsters, schemers, con artists, shills, and cheaters, who are also allowed to jump in- until or if -caught. Maybe there are similar proportions of dishonest buyers and sellers. That would be my guess. But I think eBay attracts such types.

0 bidders are unknown persons with no record on eBay. Most don't cause any kind of problems, but sometimes newbies make big mistakes. "You mean clicking all those buttons repeatedly REALLY means I bid on it?" Some are people with a grudge against eBay or the world or whatever, some think they can scam the sellers.

I have seen many sellers say 0 bidders and people with negative feedback must contact them before bidding. It is a reasonable precaution for people selling better stuff. Build up your feedback with small items like thread and needles.

I keep in mind that eBay is just an electronic swap meet with the same kind of population as a real swap meet has. So many of the booths are run by people with a scam (usually cheap goods and knockoffs for apparently low prices). You have to get there REALLY early to get to see anything sold by non-pros - people trying to sell off excess goods from their homes. The usual second hand stuff sellers are all over the one time sellers before they even unpack and they skim off the best stuff. I believe it is the same on eBay.

(I am glad they finally outlawed wearing and selling guns at the Tucson swap meet. It was a scary chill to see all those cowboys and bikers with guns- walking around with beer cups.:eek: Woo Hoo! Welcome to the wild west!)
 
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