To Zhuji or not??

[Nerida]

Hi everyone,

I am trying to educate myself as much as possible on the buying of freshwater pearls. I live in Australia, and have been selling pearls for the past six months from purchases made when I last visited Shanghai on other business.

I have been approached by a few retailers to supply boutiques and gift stores with a mix of high quality shell-based (fake) pearl (sorry!!) necklaces, and also strings of high lustre, slightly off round, baroque and perfectly round pearl necklaces - mostly in the 9 - 10mm size. I am off to Shanghai in a few weeks' time to do my buying, and am trying to decide whether I would do as well to buy in Shanghai from any of the dealers mentioned in the forums (Ling Ling probably, on Nanjing Road), or to travel to Zhuji. I am able to organize an interpreter to travel with me if necessary in Zhuji.

I have previously bought from a dealer in Pearl's Circle on Fuyong (?) Road. I will probably need to purchase about 60 strands - with 10 - 15 of these being top quality, the rest lesser quality, but still with great uniformity and lustre.

Is anyone able to advise me? I am also looking for 14K gold hooks for earrings - the ones with very long stems at the back of the ear, and that keep the pearl very close to the ear.... I am COMPLETELY overrun with stud earrings and am looking to provide something different! If I can find a picture of what I am looking for, I will post it ASAP.

Thankyou for the wealth of information your forum provides!! It is a constant source of knowledge and advice, but a dreadful consumer of time!!!

Thankyou!
Nerida

 

[Raisondetre]

Welcome to PG!

I'm mostly a consumer, not a vendor, but I have travelled quite extensively to China for both business and leisure. If you are pressed for time, and for the quantities you are buying, Shanghai would be a better bet. Zhuji caters to large volumes, and you are either unlikely to get a deal on a few strands, or good quality in general. They will not turn away any business, but given the volume vendors here typically import, you will not get top pick for cheap. Shanghai is more consumer oriented, but you can still find decent quality, especially in larger retail quantities like the ones you've mentioned. It really is a pity

Zhuji is about 3 hours away from Shanghai by train, and I found it very exhausting. I visited Yiwu, which is a famous small commodities wholesale center 1 h away from Zhuji, and I found it extremely time consuming to get stuff I wanted in the price range I wanted. It was much easier purchasing at a retail level in the less specialized wholesale markets in Guangzhou. For pearls, however, Shanghai would be my choice as it's closer to the pearling areas.

However, it is still a good experience. I enjoyed my Yiwu trip, just not the shopping bit. They had the best French restaurant at a 5-star hotel in the middle of nowhere. Go figure! I live in Australia too. It's unfortunate that there are no large scale trade shows here for jewellery.

 

[pattye]

Hi Nerida,

And welcome! We look forward to hearing details of your trip, earrings, strands and all.

Speaking for myself, I have no problem with faux pearls that are clearly marketed as such: they have their place. It's when they are passed off as 100% organic pearls, and such blather, deceiving the consumer by inferring they are as good as or same as Tahitian or South Sea, that I get concerned. We see so many examples of that all the time.

I must add, however, with the expense of that sort of trip I don't see how it could be very profitable to purchase only 60 strands--I am thinking out loud because I plan to spend 10 days at the Tucson Gem Show, which I will consider a Great Learning Experience, but in the end, not particularly profitable for my fledgling business no matter how many strands of pearls and gems I buy at wholesale!!! (I don't mean to be rude, and, of course you do not have to answer that!!!)

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[Nerida]

Thankyou both for your comments.

I try to get to China once or twice a year - restocking my young adult kids' wardrobes, clothing and accessories for myself etc - so the trip doesn't have to be totally validated by pearl profits, thank goodness! Anyway, that is how I started buying and reselling pearls - buying for myself, then for friends, and on from there! I think last time I had a spreadsheet of orders from colleagues and acquaintances, and I just doubled everything I purchased. I have supplemented my "stock" since then with online purchases from a few dealers, plus the occasional ebay purchase. I have found this to be reasonably unsatisfactory - probably only get consistent quality from one seller (round, under 9mm) - otherwise it is very hit and miss! However, demand has increased to the point where I have decided to take it seriously, and I have invested the time and money into planning and organizing my business, and feel that I need to go over and buy in person.

The success of the shell "pearls" is a bit of a surprise - I have many customers who just love them - fully understanding, of course, that they are nothing more than costume jewellery. Most women I know seem to see them as a bit of fun. These same women seem to have reasonably good pearls - sometimes fabulous pearls - and like to buy fun pieces for themselves, and serious pearls for their daughters and nieces.

So, I am interested in your comments regarding Zhuji - I am pretty good at bargaining - rarely paying more than 25 - 35% of the asking price of anything I buy in Asia - but I would be happier doing this in Shanghai if the quanitites etc required to purchase in Zhuji is too high. As I said, I am looking for about 60 strands, and want them strung "on the spot" to my specifications regarding length, clasps, etc. At this stage, I am leaning towards buying in Shanghai, and maybe travelling to Zhuji just for interest. By the way, the other big success story thus far with my sales has been in high quality coin pearls - will these be available in Zhuji??

Thanks again for your comments - and yes, raisondetre, you are more pearl obsessed than I am, and my friends think I am pretty obsessed!

Regards,
Nerida.

 

[pattye]

Thanks Nerida, for sharing the rest of the story! You have some great experience already, and no doubt others here will be able to advise you. We will be most interested in the new adventures!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[Raisondetre]

You can tell? LOL There are more lurkers than we think!

Well, 60 strands is a good number for retail and for small wholesalers, which is why it is better to buy in Shanghai than Zhuji. However, if you are going to make the trip anyway do not return empty handed. I find bargaining a bit of a pain, but usually if you have a price in mind just walk away and don't be tempted to compromise. It won't be a huge problem in Zhuji. Either the price suits you or them, and if it does neither just walk away. They will not lower it significantly for 60 strands if they are used to big customers, which they likely will be. If you have a good eye for quality they can tell. The interpreting business will be tricky - they will almost definitely take a cut. For 60 strands it's just one lot to them and it'll probably be just a day trip so I wouldn't bother. If you aren't seriously buying just do calculator talk and don't bring too much cash to look ostentatious. They will have an assortment of junk, and Zhuji will probably have coin pearls. As to whether it's the quality you want that's another story. I'd buy in Shanghai to get what you missed out on in Zhuji at the end of your trip. Shanghai is similar, but easier for the quantities you're after in terms of access.

Shanghai is great for post Chinese New Year sales and some tailored clothing, I do recommend Guangzhou for most wholesale clothes and accessories if you aren't very big. But I digress.

I'm sure Jeremy will chime in soon.

 

[Nerida]

Thanks again, Raison. I guess I've been reading the forum from time to time over the past 6 months - not too intently until recently - so that probably qualifies me as a "lurker". The more I look through the forum though, the more I am absolutely gobsmacked at the amazing quality of the pieces that PP produce - some are absolutely breathtaking!! I really don't know of any FWP retailing in stores in Australia that would come close! Are Freshadamas something that Jeremy has defined and marketed by PP or do they exist elsewhere? They look truly special! I also love the fat baroques I have seen from PP in a few of the threads.

I appreciate your comments on buying in Shanghai rather than Zhuji - I can see that the Zhuji traders aren't going to be offering me their best stock at the best prices in the quantities I am looking for. Another thought I had was to go to China Pearl City in Weitang near Suzhou - has anyone else bought there?

Unfortunately my trip will be before Chinese NY - I think my husband is off to Guangzhou late Feb so maybe he can do some "sale" shopping for me - Chinese sizing suits me well! I do like shopping in China!

Nerida.

 

[Raisondetre]

Well, most factories in China close for two weeks post Chinese New Year, some up till the end of the month as workers travel home. Not sure how it is in Zhuji, as many people travel to the industrial/city areas to work, and Zhuji might have mostly local workers. The periods to avoid for travel are the two weeks after Chinese New Year, the weeks of the Canton trade fair for Guangzhou, Labor Day (first week of may) and the Chinese National Day (up to the first two weeks of October). The sales will start soon after, but mainly for retail.

I think someone just posted about a trip to Weitang. Personally if you have to travel outside of a capital city it'd really be for the experience. I doubt you'll have luck with the quantities you're after.

 

[Nerida]

I think I will strike out then with the sales! I'm thinking all my pearl buying will probably end up being in Shanghai. I've travelled up to Suzhou before - just not for pearls. I will still plan some day trip out of town though, whether to Weitang or Zhuji I'm still undecided. Now my problem is what to buy..... thinking of increasing my budget to 100 strands - 20 at the best quality I can afford!! Now I just have to rework the budget!

 

[ksrizz]

I am in the same boat as you are... Where to go ?..

I am in the same boat as you are... Where to go ?..

I am going to China on my first official business trip. I have been selling and designing pearls for about 2 years. I am trying to establish myself with working only with and designing pearls with high standards for quality (so, I'm picky, too). I'm not talk movie star quality, but probably around the AA - AA+.The hobby has become bigger and my designs sought after, so the confidence from the positive feedback has made my husband want to take me to visit one of our pearl suppliers from Yiwu. But, he is getting increasing more popular online in the US and I am watching his prices go up ($50-$300 for round freshwater 7-8mm - I paid $13-20 last year), so I fear that greed is begining to set in and I will lose him soon. (plus, I, am not sure if I am paying too much already - last order of about 300 strands - I paid $5 for 5-6mm and $6 for 6-7mm white semi-round [more like egg shaped] but GREAT reflection and luster on most strands with no visible flaws - - is that a fair price coming from China?).

other than this one supplier, I have been trying other suppliers online found from made-in-china or alibaba, however I seldom find consistant service (as far as pearl quality) after the first order and if I want better pearls, the price goes up from before and still not the quality promised. SO, I am going to China to hand select. I really want to find fair market value for wholesale pearls...(otherwise why pay the $$ to get to China?)

I feel like I am taking a big risk going to China as well because it is so much and so much of luck of the draw. I have read deeply about Zhuji and Weitang Town - but, I'm only going with about $5 grand... I fear that I will get laughed at if I try and do business there - and is one time face to face purchase enough to establish consistant pearls when ordering again from USA? Am I going to have to go to China everytime? It almost feels like you have to bribe suppliers to remain consistant... I have even been asked about 'business proposals' to open USA markets for some of the suppliers. I can't trust most of them past the 1st shipment much less partner up with them....plus, it just sounds illegal from the get-go.... so, I don't indulge (plus, I think that if you have to give a 'cut' in what you sell (if that is how it works) -then you end up paying the high price in the long-run anyway - so back to square one with much more headache and work involved with your accountant.....

Is there any advice out there????? I can go anywhere in China, anybody out there have a good wholesome honest supplier you don't mind sharing?... worth a shot to ask.

I'll take any advice or encouragement. I really dream of going to the pearl farms, not tourist trap type-place -(I hear the Zhuji market, or weitang town - is a trap, too - for businessmen) - I don't mind focusing one minimum selection....I desire consistant quality and honest - fair relationships - for a lousy $5 grand !!! Am I asking too much?

Why do we have to buy - pay extra for - fairness - doesn't seem fair? (but, that is a soap-box subject)

My trip is planned for last week in Feb.08'

Kelli

 

[Caitlin]

Hi ksrizz and Nerida
Your posts are an excellet primer in Chinese sales style. Its almost hard to tell when one of you stops and the other starts. I hope both of you will post your experiences when you come back and will post some photos, especially of the pearls you see, if not buy.

 

[Sheila]

Hi Kelly,

Nobody will make fun of you or your $5 grand at the Zhuji market.
But you will have to go back when you need more pearls.
I would never ever expect to have the right pearls for the right price send to me without seeing them first.

Sheila

 

[zhong]

Hi, Raisondetre. Since I am from Zhuji, so probably answer some of your questions .
The offices in the pearl market are mainly owned by the locals, so the traveling of workers around New Year won't affect their business much, the business will usually be back to normal in one week after New Year's day.

Also to point out, the public holiday in china has been changed recently, there will be no more a whole week holiday for the Labor day and National day, so it should be ok to visit china at that time. Of course, if you have enough room to schedule your trip, avoiding public holiday is a better choice any way.

 

[zhong]

Hi, Ksrizz

Although not certain, it is very likely that you can get better value for what you were paying from Zhuji. (I am not so sure about the pearl prize since i am a phd student, it is my sister who is running the business, if you want, i might be able to get you the approximate price since as far as i know, you can only tell the exact price when you see the pearl, photos can be sometimes deceptive)

I won't recommend to buy online from chinese sellers. Most of these sellers are middle man, it is not a reliable and cheap way to get what you want. Although several big companies from shanxiahu village do own their websites where you might place your order, they are just not taking online business serious enough. Businessman here are a little bit old fashioned, they don't trust online shopping and selling yet, and it is not going to change in short time i suppose.

Since you know the quality of pearls, and interested in doing long term business, i think it is a good idea to take the trip. Also, i agree with you that it will be difficult to order from US after one visit because it takes time to establish mutual trust. Also, it takes time for the seller to learn the quality that the buyer need. For instance, for the same price, some buyer might prefer pearls with good luster, perfect round, with minor flaws, while others prefer luster, round with no flaws due to the market difference. Also, someone might prefer white and a bit pinkish, others might not. So all these takes time to learn before the seller can supply what the buyers are really looking for.

As for the pearl farm visit, i think it won't be easy, because most of the farms are located in other provinces such as Hunan, Jiangxi Province. Moreover, i don't think it is that important, you don't learn that much at the farm.

The time of your trip is all right, the business runs normal then. Finally, as long as you have a rough idea of the prices and can distinguish the quality of the pearls, you won't be ripped off anywhere.

Good luck

 

[ksrizz]

thank you all for your responses.

thank you all for your responses.

I think I am deciding to go to the markets in Zhuji. It baffles me that it is recommended to not speak to any suppliers before I go, but I will trust the input. Also, it baffles me to not go for the larger firms. It would seem that those who have the larger productions would be able to sell at discounted prices. I will blindly trust that input as well.

I do live in Asia at the moment (not China) and know, first-hand that there is VERY LARGE culture difference between the east and west. It is our world-views and reality that are so different stemed by what we were taught from past generations - confucius vs. j-christian ethics. It is not necessarily that the one or the other is right or wrong, it is a matter of perspective (to them or to you - because in reality - they think their values are right and we think our values are right). It's a way of life and they don't share the same ways.

However, if we understand that and can somehow in our in-the-box brain can adjust what postures mean coming from them, we might not be offended, nor they at us, or better yet, think of us as arrogant, ignorant, fools with a lot of money.... I mean, come on, how do you think we became such a rich nation (besides knowledge)... I think (hope) our nation is still based on the nature of good ethics and good ethics produces good relationships to a larger group. I think it is better than paying favors, personally...

it's a matter of perspective... and, it still leaves me wanting good pearls consistantly...

ok - am I speaking out of both sides of my mouth ?

I digress again,

I am leaving in a month to go buy pearls and I want to buy that 8-9mm freshwater pearl special this month at pearl paradise - go figure... however, I am sure, no certain, he gets better than I could and probably sells at better prices than I could get even at Zhuji. anyway, I digress AGAIN. I need sleep.

I love pearls... it's like an addiction.... but it is very research laborous.

anyway, thank you so much for the comments and this web-site.

 

[zhong]

Ksrizz, this is the price i got from my sister. The 6-7 rice shape is very much overpriced. The best quality (pearls used for strands are not the best quality) pearl costs around 200USD per kilo,(which is like 40 strands). So you can have a rough idea. i forget to ask about the 5-6.

Also, for the 8-9cm pearl. the price for the best quality (usually half hole, and loose pearl, not strand) rice shape (7.5-8.5) is around 500USD per kilo, which is about 20USD per strand. For the strand quality, it would be around 10USD.

Also, the retailer price in UK (the stores i have visited) is usually up to 10 times of the whole saler price in Zhuji. So i suppose it is reasonable for the middle man where you bought your pearls to double the price.
Hope it helps

 

[ksrizz]

Thank you for your input and information regarding the market price for the pearls. Yes, it seems that the rice pearls are a bit over-priced.

I am going to get the experience of visiting the markets before I look specifically for suppliers. Thank you for sharing the information. I appreciate it.


regards -

 

[jshepherd]

Also, for the 8-9cm pearl. the price for the best quality (usually half hole, and loose pearl, not strand) rice shape (7.5-8.5) is around 500USD per kilo, which is about 20USD per strand. For the strand quality, it would be around 10USD.

I think she was referring to round in the 8 mm range. This is always substantially more than the rice shape. Rice shape should not be confused with rice krispy or baroque either. Rice shape is more of an oval, drilled end to end shape. This is very inexpensive and very popular with designer-type pieces.

It baffles me that it is recommended to not speak to any suppliers before I go, but I will trust the input.

If you make your contacts before you go you will often feel a degree of trust and indebtedness. You will naturally feel as though your new friends are "taking care of you" and have your best interest at heart. What will actually happen is you will be discouraged from going out on your own to negotiate and be encouraged to shop at a single factory. You will most certainly overpay. If you ask to visit another you will be going to a factory of your friend's friend. Your new friend will not only set the pricing before you go, he or she will be taking a cut - typical cut is 10-20%.

Also, it baffles me to not go for the larger firms. It would seem that those who have the larger productions would be able to sell at discounted prices.

It is in the best interest of the larger companies to keep the market price of freshwater pearls as high as possible. These companies almost always sell most of their goods via Hong Kong. They will want the same prices in Zhuji.

Have you heard of 'vanity buildings' in China? You can probably find a few stories on google. Any company that has a vanity building made of marble and glass, 20-30 stories tall and nearly completely empty is a big company. You will only be able to negotiate with the young sellers, no bosses. They are instructed on pricing, and do not have the room to negotiate. At smaller factories you will almost always deal with the boss. Those bosses know exactly what their costs are and can adjust their profit margins on the spur of the moment.

This is not to say you cannot/will not get taken at a small factory. You can actually get taken a lot worse, especially if you make friends with them before your visit.

 

[ksrizz]

how to do business in Zhuji?

how to do business in Zhuji?

Thank you so much for the straight information about the relationships before the trip and also working with the bosses vs. young ladies...it really all makes common since, but you I guess you have to see it and experience it before your mind can imagine, I guess. Thank you for painting the picture for us.

Ok, here are more questions if anyone can and will help out.

What do I wear while doing business at the markets? Can I dress trendy, but not overstating that I have money? Do they observe your dressing habits, hair, make-up? I'd like to go business casual. Do I wear jewelry?

Do I take the airplane right to Zhuji? If Shanghai, how do I get to the train (someone mentioned taking the train in other threads)? What about a taxi? If I fly into Shanghai and spend the night there, where are the best shopping spots for me to dabble with a few single strands of a variety of pearls and other places to shop? I will be looking for silk, silk rugs, golf clubs, china mud dolls, oil paintings, jade, and anything else of interest.

What about the shipping I saw mentioned earlier too, where specifically do I go for shipping large quantities?

Also, if I travel to shanghai, should I stay in between Shanghai and Zhuji, so that at the end of the day at Zhuji, I can travel back to do evening fun stuff? Or is there things to do (other than pearl shopping?) in the area of Zhuji? Any preferred hotels?

Gee, I will miss the dirt market - is there anything like this around the area? I liked the oil paintings and jade paint brushes there... I will only have one day in Shanghai...

or what about Yiwu, too (I think I remember a thread saying something about it being an hour away from the market.

Basically, I need a spot to park near the market, and also near a place where we can do other shopping too. I can't waste time when I get there if I want to buy pearls and other fun stuff. Can anyone recommend how I can plan the trip?

ok - last questions - for now anyway ) - by the way, thank you SO much for helping me prepare properly for such a trip ... what an adventure!!.... I'd say, for a stay-at-home- mom of 3 small children, pearls are allowing me to have the time of my life!!!


My last question is about the 8-9 , 9-10mm wide Rice / oval pearls. more than anything, I want to find the right price for these cause these are my favorite to work with designing, even more than round (ouch) - can anyone advice me - even privately - what a fair market price is for these? Looking for high quality, but doesn't have to be gem quality... I hope these are at the zhuji market.

What stones are at this market?

A lot of questions, if anyone can answer any, I'd be most greatful.


thanks again, this forum has been a real blessing and I know I will be very equipped and ready when I get there...

yeah!, can't wait!!!! I will promise to take pictures and give feedback of the trip (if I can figure out how to do that), when I get back.

 

[PearlStruck.com]

What do I wear while doing business at the markets? Can I dress trendy, but not overstating that I have money? Do they observe your dressing habits, hair, make-up? I'd like to go business casual. Do I wear jewelry?

It would not be wise to dress rich. I usually go casual (jeans and a shirt). Why not wear pearls? Something nice.

Do I take the airplane right to Zhuji? If Shanghai, how do I get to the train (someone mentioned taking the train in other threads)? What about a taxi? If I fly into Shanghai and spend the night there, where are the best shopping spots for me to dabble with a few single strands of a variety of pearls and other places to shop? I will be looking for silk, silk rugs, golf clubs, china mud dolls, oil paintings, jade, and anything else of interest.

- No - Hangzhou is the closest
- By taxi
- No, take the train to Hangzhou
- Go to Pearl City or Hong Qiao

What about the shipping I saw mentioned earlier too, where specifically do I go for shipping large quantities?

Ship from the factories. They know how to do it.

Also, if I travel to shanghai, should I stay in between Shanghai and Zhuji, so that at the end of the day at Zhuji, I can travel back to do evening fun stuff? Or is there things to do (other than pearl shopping?) in the area of Zhuji? Any preferred hotels?

Zhuji is the larger city next to Shanxiahu where the actual pearl market and factories are. There are things to do in Zhuji. Need more? Stay in Hangzhou (between Zhuji and Shanghai).
Hailiang hotel is near Shanxiahu and nice enough. but if you are not going just for the pearls you will be bored. There is nothing around it.

Basically, I need a spot to park near the market, and also near a place where we can do other shopping too. I can't waste time when I get there if I want to buy pearls and other fun stuff. Can anyone recommend how I can plan the trip?

Get your thoughts in order first And then plan it one step at a time. It is not difficult. You know where you want to go. Now you just need to plan it a day at a time.

My last question is about the 8-9 , 9-10mm wide Rice / oval pearls. more than anything, I want to find the right price for these cause these are my favorite to work with designing, even more than round (ouch) - can anyone advice me - even privately - what a fair market price is for these? Looking for high quality, but doesn't have to be gem quality... I hope these are at the zhuji market.

As Jeremy mentioned, rice pearls are cheap. Anything oval is considered rice. For example, top strand quality of 6-7 mm should be less than $4 per strand. In the 8-9 mm range you are looking at $15 (ish), and 9-10 mm maybe close to $25. I do not buy these for my own business but have sourced them in the past for people I buy for in the States.

What stones are at this market?

Skip the stones, at least in Zhuji. No real deals to be had there.