size matters (WRT knotting)

Pearly-Whites said:
I hardly get it right on the first try!
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I swear I have to string / knot every pearl necklace at least 3 times. Something always go wrong. I string too tight. The thread breaks or knots where it shouldn't. I get to the end and can't get the thread through the last 3 pearls. Beader's Secret and Pattye's big eye needles have drastically improved the number of times it takes me to get a necklace right, for which I am eternally grateful!
 
Math question ladies...

So if I assume that if there are 50 8mm pearls in a 16" hank or strand and that knotting them adds two inches resulting in an 18" strand can I assume that there are 25 knots to an inch?
 
Pearly-Whites said:
Math question ladies...

So if I assume that if there are 50 8mm pearls in a 16" hank or strand and that knotting them adds two inches resulting in an 18" strand can I assume that there are 25 knots to an inch?
Click to expand...

No, there are definitely not 25 knots to an inch. There are about 25.4 mm to an inch. If the pearls are 8mm each, then there will only be 3 pearls to the inch, and similarly only 3 knots to the inch.

I find that the clasp and the French wire / gimp adds about 3/4 " to 1" to the length, and the knots add only a little over an inch of extra length.

Fun fact: I taught a weaving class on how to tie knots once. I called it "Thou Shalt Knot."
 
BWeaves said:
No, there are definitely not 25 knots to an inch. There are about 25.4 mm to an inch. If the pearls are 8mm each, then there will only be 3 pearls to the inch, and similarly only 3 knots to the inch.

I find that the clasp and the French wire / gimp adds about 3/4 " to 1" to the length, and the knots add only a little over an inch of extra length.

Fun fact: I taught a weaving class on how to tie knots once. I called it "Thou Shalt Knot."
Click to expand...

I think what she means is if you were to knot 25 knots side by side, they would add up to 1 inch. I don't think that estimate is too far off.

Assuming 1" clasp:
18" strand minus 1" clasp = 17" or 431.8 mm in pearls and knots
431.8 mm minus (50 x 8 mm) = 31.8mm remaining in knots
31.8 mm divided by 49 knots = 0.65 mm each, or 39 knots per inch (if lined side by side)

If your clasp is 0.75" or 19.05 mm:
18" strand minus 0.75" clasp = 17.25" or 438.15 mm in pearls and knots
438.15 mm minus (50 x 8 mm) = 38.15 mm remaining in knots
38.15 mm divided by 49 knots = 0.78 mm each, or 33-34 knots per inch

Also wouldn't 8 mm pearls technically range from 7.5-8mm (unless I got the wrong end and they should be 8-8.5mm)? So let's say the average diameter of all the pearls is 7.75 mm and your clasp adds 0.75":

18" strand minus 0.75" clasp = 17.25" or 438.15 mm in pearls and knots
438.15 mm minus (50 x 7.75 mm) = 50.65 mm remaining in knots
50.65 mm divided by 49 knots = 1.03 mm each, or 24-25 knots per inch
 
BWeaves said:
No, there are definitely not 25 knots to an inch. There are about 25.4 mm to an inch. If the pearls are 8mm each, then there will only be 3 pearls to the inch, and similarly only 3 knots to the inch.

I find that the clasp and the French wire / gimp adds about 3/4 " to 1" to the length, and the knots add only a little over an inch of extra length.

Fun fact: I taught a weaving class on how to tie knots once. I called it "Thou Shalt Knot."
Click to expand...

haha, you could also call your class, "It's Knot Hard!"
 
Nice break down, Karman. 25 knots to an 18" strand of 8mm pearls is a reasonable average. I always assume about 50 pearls for an 18" 8mm necklace, but there are so many variables to consider.
 
Thanks! That was what I was thinking. It is of course, an approximate based on the pearls, the thread and the knots; but it is nice to know ahead of time what the approximate length will be done on completion.

You guys are awesome!
 
You all gave me a big laugh with this discussion! And the title!!

When you purchase a clasp, at least from companies like Stuller or Rio, they give the length of the clasp. Really helpful when the finished length of a necklace needs to be at least 18 inches, given 16 inches of unstrung pearls. I figure about 1mm per knot, with 25-30 knots being about 1 inch of added length or 25mm. These would be large pearls, for example. Gimp will add about 2-3mm also.

We are pretty much stuck with adjusting the thread size to whatever size the pearl drill hole is, and that requires experimentation for me also. Of course, we could be like JP and drill our own pearls!

I usually slide the needle on the uncut end of the thread, double it and see if it goes through the pearl and doubles back with no problem. Sometimes I test a few knots also.

Sunseeker, your rope turned out beautiful! I've been wanting something similar, as most of my necklaces are one color and about 20 inches.

It's pretty much a personal thing how each feels about the size of knots vs size of pearls.

You may have heard of Paspaley's invisible knotting. Their SSP are strung very tightly and the knots between don't show. It makes the necklace very stiff. I was able to examine Pearly Shell's at Ruckus and was unable to figure out how the heck they do it! This technique would only work for a short necklace, not a rope. I hope someday one of us will be asked to restring a Paspaley and find out their secret!

Many thanks to each of you, Sunseeker, Karman, BWeaves, Marianne, P-W, Amti, Hanadama, Katbran, JP for sharing your experiences working with Beader's Secret thread and supplies. I feel like being able to knot the pearls we love to wear and gift to loved ones is icing on the cake!
 
Speaking of Beaders Secret - I bought the lilac a little while back. I usually only use White. cream.black.storm etc. But I had these deep lavender pearls and thought why not...well it's perfect. The woman who ordered the necklace loved it because it just blended in so nicely that the knots don't stand out like they would with white. I'm getting some more...lol

As for Paspaley - the only thing I can think is that the drill holes are smallish and they use a doubled fine thread. The last necklace I held was worth 240,000 and I wasn't game to pull it apart..
 
My first thought is, are we sure Paspaley are actually knotting their pearls?

However, maybe they drill their pearls, and then rout out a bit of a divot around the hole, so there's room for the knot, but the pearls butt up against each other tightly.

P.S. I gave away all my pearl knotting silk and crappy beading needles after I bought Beader's Secret and big eye needles and gimp from Pattye. There was no point keep that stuff in my stash, because I was never ever going to use it again. Pattye, never retire, please.
 
Thanks Pattye for making such a wonderful product available to us! Never would I have started down this road, if it weren't for Beader's Secret.

Interesting theory BWeaves...now you know I'm going to have to experiment with that (using some practice pearls).
 
However, maybe they drill their pearls, and then rout out a bit of a divot around the hole, so there's room for the knot, but the pearls butt up against each other tightly.
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Agh, the thought that they would do something like this, and I have heard this before as a possibility ~ wouldn't that reduce the value of the pearl????? Makes me nauseous~

I heard about the invisible knotting years ago from a professional in Australia. Then I asked Pearly Shell if I could examine her necklace which was purchased when GIA group toured Paspaley. I'm quite sure it is on thread. But I didn't want to pull it apart to see the knot construction, well, I mean I REALLY WANTED to, but resisted!

Don't worry, I plan to be around peddling my thread, needles and all for a long time!!
 
I would think that once drilled, the pearl loses a bit of value...not sure a little extra shave off would matter too much, but then again I could be wrong. Could it be that they use some sort of lining for the drill hole that allows the knot to slip in a bit? Maybe like a silicone liner that can be tugged back through?
 
Pattye, thanks for the commentary! And for offering this awesome product! Yes, you can never, EVER retire! ..ok, if you do, give us a heads up, so I can stock a 20 year supply! haha

I started out knotting with carded, needled silk. But I was never satified with my knots, plus the stretching after a few months, made me crazy. I then switched to PowerPro, which I love for heavier strands or gemstones, although it wreaks havoc on my hands, b/c I tend to pull very tightly on the threads. So I fell in love when I started using Beaders Secret, which is perfect for most of my needs! I do have to be careful when switching between projects (PowerPro vs Beaders Secret), as I can easily rip the Beaders Secret threads right off the pearls! ...kinda like when I switch driving between the truck and the Prius - the brake petal handles very differently! It took me a while to build that muscle memory :)

GemGeek, do share any insight you may have gleened from your visit!
 
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