Help! Baroque Natural or Cultured?

[flpvine]

Hi guys!

Recently i got this baroque pearl from a dealer, they claimed that this one is Natural, not a Cultured one

he gave me the certificate, but as i check this certificate with the lab he use, unfortunately the lab said they cannot determined wether its natural or cultured, they just explaining that the certificate declare that indeed this pearl is real and not plastic

Really dissapoint with the result, may bring this one to GIA lab if there’s a chance of it being a natural one..

Because we don’t have GIA lab available in my country :’(


So this is a big decision and cost to me..

Might as well taking xray to the healthcare lab, but don’t know which type of xray should i take…

Really need your honest opinion

Thankyou SO Much

 

[jshepherd]

The certificate doesn't say anything about the pearl origin or provenance. The only reason to certify it would be for a natural determination, so it seems odd that this certificate was included. A natural pearl of that size and luster would be very valuable, but not with that certificate.

If the seller believes the pearl is natural, I'd want a certificate to be provided with the pearl. Otherwise you're most likely going to spend money certifying a cultured pearl.

 

[flpvine]

The certificate doesn't say anything about the pearl origin or provenance. The only reason to certify it would be for a natural determination, so it seems odd that this certificate was included. A natural pearl of that size and luster would be very valuable, but not with that certificate.

If the seller believes the pearl is natural, I'd want a certificate to be provided with the pearl. Otherwise you're most likely going to spend money certifying a cultured pearl

Hi Jshepherd! I know, this might be a very valuable piece if this turns out to be Natural Pearl, because the only lab available in here (jakarta) only this :’( Thats why i find it disappointing when talking with the gemologist, at the end they say they couldn’t differentiate between Natural & Cultured but still releasing the certificate…. That is what i try to avoid, to certify a cultured pearl! The seller himself is coming from a small village, thus they cannot provide me with a proper certificate…. Thats why this is quite a big leap of faith for me…

 

[flpvine]

Hi guys! I tried to take photos of it on top of a flashlight & LED

Hope these photo could give any clues about it whether its Natural pearl / Cultured one.

Please inform me for more advise & explanations

Big Thanks!

 

[CortezPearls]

You know what REALLY sets me off from that "certificate"???
It reads: MICROSCOPE: Gritty by Teeth
For me, this part just makes the entire certificate a PIECE OF JUNK (or paper) and a complete an utter SCAM.
I would advise against paying natural pearl prices for it.

 

[CortezPearls]

Hi guys! I tried to take photos of it on top of a flashlight & LED

Hope these photo could give any clues about it whether its Natural pearl / Cultured one.

Please inform me for more advise & explanations

Big Thanks!

View attachment 465791View attachment 465792View attachment 465793View attachment 465794View attachment 465795View attachment 465796

The photos are very nice. But after that certificate I would just doubt any possibility of the pearl being natural.

 

[flpvine]

The photos are very nice. But after that certificate I would just doubt any possibility of the pearl being natural.

Hii @CortezPearls
I know the “Certificate” really set us down..

I also cannot believe at first what the lab staff saying, because what the point of bring in the piece to them in the first place if just to tell us nothing…

Aside from the Certificate, do you have any Clues from your Expertise?

Thanks!

 

[flpvine]

UPDATE:

Bring this one to xray , to see the inside, i see no “onion like” formation

is this a cultured?

 

[flpvine]

 

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

A natural pearl of that size and luster would be very valuable, but not with that certificate.

Agreed. The certificate is not governed by an accredited lab. Even the R-spec result is narrow and singular, which doesn't do much other than suggest some calcite present... which is typical of any pearl.

Examining the xray reveals a distinct circular geometry within the structure. This is supported by the dark contrast which surrounds it, which suggest post-graft periostracial growth, which is normally high in conchiolin, a dark, water-tight protein. Inferior and internal to the bead is another dark contrast, this time in a quasi geometric square which often indicates graft tissue.

So we may ask ourselves, why is this so large and misshapen? Most cultured pearls are harvested no later than two years. Many are 18 months. This pearl older by at least two fold, perhaps more.

This pearl has a considerable dark patch at the nucleus. It appears to be highly proteinaceous and possibly gaseous. This almost always suggests post-graft infection or disrupted convalescence. However the size is not consistent with normal operations. How can this be? I suspect this is a relayed pearl, meaning the oyster was displaced from it's brood group and grew in another location. Perhaps falling from it's string to the sea bed, where it lived extra years, then rediscovered by a diver. Sometimes, test samples are set out, but forgotten for a time, but collected later.

Provenance, species and location of harvest are unknown. Again, red flags.

I never say never, but the likelihood this pearl is natural is very low.

While that may sound disappointing, I'd like to thank you (greatly) for posting this pearl in an objective and well presented manner. Your imagery is very impressive and you've asked all the right questions. Well done!

 

[flpvine]

@Lagoon Island Pearls

THANK YOU so much Dave for your kind Explanation, giving me so much light about the pearl…

Yes this is disappointing, but im having a big time learning so much about Natural Pearl here…

if later the provenance is found, will this changing your POV?
I may not believe at this moment, but seller said this one come from pinctada maxima…

Given the Analysis, is this Relayed Pearl have any more value compared to the cultured ?

and If anyone knows about the price range of this relayed pearl are greatly welcome to comment / pm me

Thankyou so much

 

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

if later the provenance is found, will this changing your POV?
I may not believe at this moment, but seller said this one come from pinctada maxima…

Given the Analysis, is this Relayed Pearl have any more value compared to the cultured ?

Additional information is always helpful in an investigation.

The pearl has characteristics consistent with SS pearls. It's a reasonable presumption.

And yes, because the pearl has unusual, non-typical traits it may have some value added.

 

[CortezPearls]

Hey Dave @Lagoon Island Pearls , do you remember the "gel nuclei" that were made about a decade ago? I think the company was "Seikaku". Thos nuclei would be inserted into the pearl sac as a 2nd graft, the gel would absorb water, expand and force the sac to do so as well...the resulting product was a large baroque, with a void inside (the gel basically degrades).
It's giving me the "tricky pearl vibes".

 

[Lagoon Island Pearls]

Hey Dave @Lagoon Island Pearls , do you remember the "gel nuclei" that were made about a decade ago? I think the company was "Seikaku". Thos nuclei would be inserted into the pearl sac as a 2nd graft, the gel would absorb water, expand and force the sac to do so as well...the resulting product was a large baroque, with a void inside (the gel basically degrades).
It's giving me the "tricky pearl vibes".

Vaguely, yes, including the clay filled sacs. It could be that, except the first graft pearl may have been malformed or granular etc., so they just left it and did the subsequent procedure anyway. This pearl clearly presents from a mature age group, for which there could be any number of reasons why it's separated from it's original brood year/group. I'm sure during these experiments they resulted all kinds of monstrosities or aberrations. Some may have been destroyed or otherwise hoarded only to spring up later.

I suppose if one did dives around abandoned or fallow farms, you'd find a few odd things.

 

[CortezPearls]

Vaguely, yes, including the clay filled sacs. It could be that, except the first graft pearl may have been malformed or granular etc., so they just left it and did the subsequent procedure anyway. This pearl clearly presents from a mature age group, for which there could be any number of reasons why it's separated from it's original brood year/group. I'm sure during these experiments they resulted all kinds of monstrosities or aberrations. Some may have been destroyed or otherwise hoarded only to spring up later.

I suppose if one did dives around abandoned or fallow farms, you'd find a few odd things.

I agree. I remember those amazing keshi Josh from Kamoka shared some years ago: the oysters got lost and they found them years later, only to harvest these large and beautiful keshi pearls.