The Bain of Sellers - Buyer Remorse

[Caitlin]

Good question.

 

[Slraep]

But I don't feel up to going into it all right now. And I am feeling pretty stupid sometimes I am way to trusting because I want to believe in the goodness of people but the fact is that many of them are not good and fair. My gut feelings did kick it but I read it all wrong and thought it was just me because I had just had an operation and was not feeling great.

Dawn

I feel for you Dawn. Sounds like you've encountered a nasty "Zeide Erskine experience" if you ask me. She was a master at making people feel stupid and confused. Anyway, chalk this nastiness up to experience. If you want to be successful at sales, you must stick to a set of your own rules and you have to keep repeating those rules to pesky, non-serious buyers, over and over and over, every time they give you some of their own silly spiel.

I've never done commercial sales, but I did many years of ferreting out rare things for collectors as a sort of hobby. Some collectors were very eccentric and demanding. The way I kept my sanity was to stick to my rules without exception. It would have been too stressful otherwise.

Slraep

 

[Bodecia]

Hi All and thank you,

I am not going to go into too much at the moment - just not up to it. But although I haven't checked her feedback for a while I believe it was fine. But the thing is on eBay feedback comes in many forms. If I love something, I rave, I rave and say I loved it and how great the seller is. If they have not been totally honest I either work it out with them or just say something like. "Received, thanks." and that's is it. Or Pretty Pink Pearls - when it the item was SS golden pearls - generally after the person apoligising etc but I hate leaving really bad feedback and my way is to leave little if I feel they have not been totally honest. If I feel they have just made a mistake I just leave positive feedback without raving.

This apart from my Karma, came from experience. If you are too honest the dishonest seller slams you back and for the most part people don't see what is behind it all.

I leave great feedback for customers and generally they do the same for me but this time I am sure I will be Slammed, even though in emails she said it was all her fault etc - yes I have kept them all. I hoard emails as well as pearls I guess what is distressing me is that I will slam her back, but there is not enough room to explain why and it will just look like I am a nasty piece of work.

I was terribly stupid. I wanted to pull the item but she didn't want me too. I left it on. I was actually going to keep it as it was beautiful but now all I associate it with is pain. It is not that she got a bad deal but yes I did feel she paid top price so I sent her extra and paid for expensive postage and insurance. If she had kept the emails "friendly" I would have once again said to send it back but after saying she didn't want to now it has all gone to ++++, just in the last few hours. She keeps changing her mind. I think intially she thought she could buy, sell, scam and make a lot of money for herself but when it didn't work out she has finally shown her true colours. Up until recently she was pretending to be friendly. And I made the right offers but they didn't suit her - but now I think it is War and because of some things she has done now I will not except it back.

I do know that many buyers think that if they don't like a product when they get it they should just be able to return it because it doesn't suit their colouring or it "makes me look fat" or whatever but I don't think they realise that it costs a lot of time and money to list items. Actually a terrible ammount of time and money and often we lose on items, yes on ebay we lose often. I might pay $40 and I end up selling it at auction for $9.99, then the buyer buys another $5 item and pays for them separately so I go down another $2. Might not sound like a lot and isn't but it adds up along with all the fees - ebay, paypal, often go down on postage too.

So I am going to stick to my guns. Because it has become a matter of pride and principle now. So for my own self respect I have to fight it out. I hate fights.

Dawn - Bo - Bodecia my old love (bitch) dog that died when she was 16 years old. She Walks In My Soul - one day we will be reunited again. So many of my darlings walk in my soul.

I feel for you Dawn. Sounds like you've encountered a nasty "Zeide Erskine experience" if you ask me. She was a master at making people feel stupid and confused. Anyway, chalk this nastiness up to experience. If you want to be successful at sales, you must stick to a set of your own rules and you have to keep repeating those rules to pesky, non-serious buyers, over and over and over, every time they give you some of their own silly spiel.

I've never done commercial sales, but I did many years of ferreting out rare things for collectors as a sort of hobby. Some collectors were very eccentric and demanding. The way I kept my sanity was to stick to my rules without exception. It would have been too stressful otherwise.

 

[pearlescence]

Yes, eBay is a great deal for buyers, but it is hard to make any money as a seller.
Do you have a law in American/Canada etc as we do in Europe called the Distance Selling Regulations. If an internet buyer returns anything in proper condition you have to give them ALL their money back, even if their reason is because it is Tuesday.
Never mind the credit card fees and postage you have incurred...(at least paypal gives you a fee refund)

 

[BluePawprint]

here are a few things that pose a "red flag".

Err, that would mean I (inadvertedly) set off the first two-and-a-half red flags. Half red-flag for the change of mind to expedited shipping (though I didn't bug!).

I'm in Singapore, by the way. Those Singaporeans who do buy on Ebay, often use a freight-forwarder in US, which forwards to Singapore. It's offered by our main postal provider and promoted rather heavily, cos it's cheaper postage than the seller directly charging international shipping.

Then again, I don't know any friends who ever bought jewellery online. I think I flipped my friends out by doing so, hehe.

Some friends who like to buy from certain international brands (eg. polo dot com, cos they're cheaper when on sale), often complain their locally-issued credit card is rejected. So we do ask first.

 

[BluePawprint]

Sorry, Bodecia, for not being able to offer any advice. I buy very rarely on Ebay.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Dawn, I looked at your Black Hills gold emerald ring auction (item number 310036343089.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESTATE-VINTAGE-...ryZ67727QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My guess is that the buyer took the ring to a jeweler and was told that she overpaid. The ring is 10K and hollow and you were not sure the stone was even an emerald. What if it wasn't? Or what if it was a low quality emerald, heavily oiled or filled to make it look better?

My advice to you for the future is to be sure of what you are selling and what it is worth. For valuable items, maybe even get an appraisal. It will help you to price and describe your items accurately and with confidence and may help prevent buyer dissatisfaction.

Edit: I did a bit of hunting online and found out what the CCO on your ring refers to: it's the trademark for the Coleman Black Hills gold company. Your auction says this is not a modern piece but Coleman's website says "Black Hills Gold Jewelry by Coleman was founded in 1977."

Here is the Coleman Website:
http://www.blackhillsgoldbycoleman.com/index.aspx

I see Mt. St. Helens (i.e. emerald obsidianite, i.e. glass) green stones but no emeralds...You may also learn more about their rings here:

The Coleman Black Hills Gold Jewelry company has a trademark that bears the letters CCO as shown in the drawing below.

(There is a graphic here of the CCO)

You may contact the Coleman Black Hills Gold company at
5125 Highway 16 South
Rapid City, South Dakota, 57701
or by phone at 1-800-874-9926.

http://www.bhgolddiggers.com/BlackHillsGoldJewelryTrademarks.html


I'm sorry, but my personal conclusion is that your buyer received an item that really was not represented correctly, though you didn't realize this. Consider refunding her voluntarily. I do not mean to offend you, just giving my opinion.

 

[olmander]

I was following this thread and trying to figure out what do I think about it. It is not easy, because being a Dutch of a Russian origin I know too well how much fraud comes from that side. And this distrust is sitting so deep from childhood (I grew up there) that you just can not afford to trust. This is one of the reasons I never dared to buy on E-Bay and subconsciously expecting trouble any time I buy anything on internet although it hardly ever went wrong. This decease subsides with years but does not go completely. Therefore I admire all of you, e-bay sellers, for taking risks and being so friendly and trusting and still cheerful with so many fraud around.

But this all has another side, which I am resigned to accept, nothing to do, but nevertheles... The young and well-earning generation of East-Europeans is thinking only in internet terms and tend to buy everything on internet, including schoolbooks, - but having plenty of money they happen to be denied the access to many markets where they (especially now) could keep the profits much higher . But again - there is no way to resolve this problem because virtually one cannot distinguish a good buyer from a bad one.

Just a very recent example: my older son, who works in Moscow in one of the big international advertising companies, was impressed by my passionate stories about pearls and this forum, saw some pictures I posted him, and got carried away by the idea to buy a nice strand of Tahitians for his fiance. Money was not a problem (if I could earn like that living here...). We enthusiastically searched through all the websites availabe here on PG (in PearlParadise and others), found several items he would gladly buy, but then got stuck with the technical side (credit cards, Russian mailing address etc). I volunteered to buy it for him but after calculating that apart from the main price and shipping to me I would have to pay the tax of importing it to Europe plus another shipping to my son, not speaking about all time invested in it... plus time to wait until I get my money back from him... Well, you understand that I told him to buy his girlfriend a pair of poshy sandals instead of Tahitians, this would cost about the same in Moscow prices.

I hope that thie situation will become better in 20 years but so far it is hopeless and I would not trust the East European market either...

 

[Slraep]

Dawn, I looked at your Black Hills gold emerald ring auction (item number 310036343089.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ESTATE-VINTAGE-...ryZ67727QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My guess is that the buyer took the ring to a jeweler and was told that she overpaid. The ring is 10K and hollow and you were not sure the stone was even an emerald. What if it wasn't? Or what if it was a low quality emerald, heavily oiled or filled to make it look better?

My advice to you for the future is to be sure of what you are selling and what it is worth. For valuable items, maybe even get an appraisal. It will help you to price and describe your items accurately and with confidence and may help prevent buyer dissatisfaction.

What a great post, Pearl_dreams! I neglected to see what Dawn's item for sale was. It's eons away from the types of things my clients asked for. I maintained a strict personal policy regarding finder's fees and returns, but the goods "found" were undoubtedly worth the price paid and were in the "unique and rare" category most of the time, with multiple certificates, or my personal guarantee of it being so . On collector's markets, sometimes certain items will skyrocket in price just because someone wealthy fancies something very badly, or it is the last piece to finish off a collection.

Now I can see how, with more research, the buyer of the "vintage"10K emerald-glass ring would, perhaps, be a little more than just disappointed.

Slraep

 

[Pearl Dreams]

It goes beyond that...if you look at the bidding history, the winning bidder's proxy bids were driven up repeatedly by a single, zero-feedback bidder whose bidding activity with this seller is 71% (last time I checked.)

Because eBay has made it impossible to check the identity or location of bidders until the item is won-- and even then, the underbidders' IDs are hidden-- many buyers are now afraid they have been shilled. Shills are typically zero feedback bidders whose principal activity is with the seller in question. So this buyer is probably wondering if she has been shilled.

I do not believe for one moment that shilling went on. But the buyer may very well think it did, further fueling her dissatisfaction.

The buyer is also a seller. My guess is that she gambled, hoping to be buying a valuable emerald in a relatively cheap setting, and lost her gamble.

 

[Slraep]

It goes beyond that...if you look at the bidding history, the winning bidder's proxy bids were driven up repeatedly by a single, zero-feedback bidder whose bidding activity with this seller is 71% (last time I checked.).......

Oh my, that's very, very interesting. I didn't see that either!

Slraep

 

[gravityalwayswins]

I'm sorry, but my personal conclusion is that your buyer received an item that really was not represented correctly, though you didn't realize this. Consider refunding her voluntarily. I do not mean to offend you, just giving my opinion.

You make an excellent point, Pearl_dreams, about the item and the buyer's potential thoughts. But the buyer asked Bo to offer it to the underbidder, which Bo agreed to do, then the buyer refused to return the item to Bo so she could offer it to the underbidder! (to quote Bo from her initial post, she offered to let the buyer "Send it back and then I can offer it to the under bidder.", which the buyer refused). That's what I found so weird about Bo's story. Who knows - it's definitely a weird situation regardless (and per Jeremy's email, not as uncommon as many of us would imagine ).

 

[pearlescence]

It could be that the buyer thought she had been misled (emerald/glass),and thought that if she returned there would be no refund
so there may have been an outbreak of mutual mistrust.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

The buyer would also be out a significant amount of money to return it speedily to Australia.

Here is what I think the ideal outcome would be at this point--and I mean ideal in that Dawn is less likely to get a very negative feedback if she does this. When a seller makes a mistake, they are usually advised to pay for the return shipping as the buyer should not be out any money for a misrepresented item.

Dawn should apologize to the buyer and explain that she herself thought the ring was older and more valuable (and had bought it as such), but that she has since learned otherwise.

She should offer a full refund including return shipping upon receipt of the ring and the pendant. (A generous alternative would be to let the buyer keep the pendant as a good will gesture and compensation for her trouble.)

Then she should revise her listing if she plans to resell it-- though judging from her stated feelings about the ring, she may prefer to keep it. (The underbidder should not be offered the ring because it was not represented correctly anyway and the same problem would arise.)

It is a reminder to us that items sold in an antique shop cannot be assumed to be antiques-- sorry you had this problem, Dawn. But it's never too late to do the right thing.

 

[Slraep]

The buyer has re-listed the ring with eBay for a lot less than she paid, so I guess she and Dawn did not come to any agreement after all.

Slraep

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I hope she sells it and recovers some of her money.

 

[silverseajewelry]

Hey! Anyone out there wanna be my shill? I sure could use one! I pay in pearls!

No, seriously...it's not a joking matter. Ebay should have some sort of detection program to find that sort of thing and suspend questionable accounts. That's not to say I believe anyone here has been involved in shill bidder action...

Selling on ebay is very hard, unless you are Care Ehret with a *big* reputation and a long list of repeat customers. I am starting small and careful and setting my prices very attractively low until I pick up some momentum.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

eBay does have a way to detect shilling, but it isn't investigated unless someone who thinks they have been shilled reports their suspicions.

However, what usually happens then is that the shill ID is the one suspended, while the selling ID is allowed to go on and make more money for eBay.

I don't believe any shilling went on here, but the reduction in transparency on eBay is very troubling and off-putting. The upcoming changes in feedback are even worse. A lot of sellers are throwing in the towel in May when the new rules kick in. Can't say I blame them.

 

[knotty panda]

Aye carumba! I couldn't get into this here thread one iota. I just kept thinking, "she paid you, and your problem is????" Sleepless nights, worries, it all didn't make sense. But it makes perfect sense now. Somethin', ain't it.

 

[silverseajewelry]

What exactly are the new changes in feedback rules?

Great summary, knotty!