To Knot or Double Knot? That is the question

I've used the surgeon's knot for my 11mm dyed fwp and it worked fine! (Pattye, I used your Pattye's Serafil thread.)

I like the size of the knots better than the single knot when the pearls are larger. It seemed more proportional.
 
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Pattye, I made two necklaces exactly as you see in the picture. on one I used PowerPro #20 and on the other I used PowerPro #30. On both, I doubled over the thread because I like that process better than using a single strand (it seems easier for me to get the knots closer to the pearl.) But on the #20 I had to use surgeon's knot, otherwise the knot would have slipped in into the pearl hole. I agree with you PearlDreams, it does seems more proportional. These pearls are about 11mm as well. The surgeon's knots were a little harder to tie becuase the thread always wanted to bunch up, but PowerPro tied them down like a champ! And although I really had to pull hard on each knot, I was able to get each one tied in the right place without breaking the thread or knotting in the place -- which likely would have happened with silk (which I also tested. ..and failed!). The surgeons knots using PowerPro was really rough on my hands though, so next time I need to use surgeons' knots I will try with Beaders Secret.

Pattye, what is the size comparison of Beaders Secret to PowerPro?

Thanks!
Kathleen
 
Sunseeker, I use Pattye's Serafil thread or Beaders Secret thread in lieu of 20# Power Pro whenever I don't want to use white or moss green thread. I do wish Power Pro came in more colors.

BTW, Power Pro comes in 50# and 65# also. I have the 50#-- it's good for larger, wider hole beads.
 
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Kathleen,

Yes, Beader's Secret is about the same size as #20 power pro. Both Powerpro and Beader's Secret would generally be used doubled with a needle. Beader's Secret is stronger than silk, doubled about #24.50, but not as strong as powerpro doubled.

Powerpro does come in red and gold, but both colors run, so aren't satisfactory for knotting.

When I get home I will see how the surgeons knots works with some larger hole pearls, I'm curious!
 
Thanks Pattye, that's help me make sense of all this knotting strategy! I have to say I really love both Beader's Secret and Powerpro. The Beader's Secret is softer and on my hands, the variety of colors is gorgeous, and the drape is really ideal! But I think PowerPro is more forgiving for newbie knotters like me. Also, I think it is better when strength is the primary concern, such as knotting with beads, I would prefer Powerpro. But I will also try Pattye's idea of adding another thread for larger holes.

Actually, I don't see any reason to use silk at all anymore--it gets dirty and it stretches. However, I just watched an instructional DVD that I purchased because I really want to learn the proper, professional way to knot. The instructor said to use silk for pearls valued over $500, otherwise she used another synthetic. Does that make sense to anyone?
 
The only reason I can think to use silk..is to say you've used silk. It sounds more expensive. I really like knotting with Beaders Secret..wish it came in a larger size as I'm not fond of working with three threads..which I'm doing with two needles and then tying just the one knot. I like the way Beaders Secret knots just sssllliiiiiidddddeeee into place. :)

Now I don't make that many long necklaces so I'm going to ask a question on knotting with multiple threads.

When you knot with 3 threads or 4 .. and you are using two needles (for ease of getting the thread through the holes) ... when you tie the knot do you pro knotters 1. take all three threads and tie the knot or 2. tie the knot with the two threads around the single thread..so that the single thread just ends up running through the strands to help take up the space made by the holes.

That make sense? lol

side note.... I've got Power Pro that runs from 20# to 100# that I tend to use for stones if I'm not going to use fine wire.
 
Katbran,

I tie all three or 4 threads in the knot, and pull very tightly. It does take me longer to knot with more than 2 strands. I've sometimes knotted large 11-12+mm pearls with holes that must have been 1.0mm or larger, and the knots looked consistent and tidy when done. But certainly there are other ways that could work. Truly there are multiple ways to knot. So helpful to discuss it here.

Beader's Secret does come in a larger size, but the knots are quite knobby and casual looking; the thread is too thick for average pearl holes and one would have to ream the end pearls quite a bit to start and finish.

I have Powerpro on hand and learned on that; agreed Katbran, it's good to have lots of options available.
 
Power pro can be purchased in larger diameters to solve the need for doubling thread. I use 50# from fishing supplier (Angles Center) for a lot of my bigger hole pearls, and a no tools (no tweezers) 2 strand method similar to Caitland's video.

I plan to post a new thread with my method soon under a new no tools thread.

Lloyd
 
Pattye, thanks again for your good advice. Do you have any of the larger thread in all those colours? Might want to experiment with it on stones etc. I just love the colour range of the Beaders Secret and that nice slippery feel to knotting!

Lloyd - be very interested to see/read your thread..I still use an awl to move the knot.
 
I learned how to double knot by passing the strand through the loop twice, not by tying two separate knots. Anybody else?
 
Pattye, Pearl Dreams, Caitlin, I agree with you, I think the double knot (passing through the loop twice) is the same as a surgeon's knot. I just did a necklace with gemstones, all doubled knotted with beaders secret, b/c the bead holes were too big. Worked great, just took a little longer.
 
SunSeeker..does the knot still slide easily with the double/surgeons knot? I just tried using doubled Beaders Secret on some really fat Freshies .. (like 18mm drops) and the knots were way too small looking so I was going to redo it with three threads as I usually use on a long strand. But if the surgeons knot slides well....hmmmm... might get away without that third strand.
 
Katbran,

Although Pattye's Serafil thread or Beader's Secret thread slides easily when making a single knot, I found it was slightly less certain to do so with a double knot. But then, knots are easier to uundo with Serafil or Beader's Secret, if you do run into a problem.

Why not give it a try on a mini practice strand?
 
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Katbran, I agree. The double knots have a tendency to bunch up (I found the same with powerpro too), but it's easy to reset the knot, if nec.
 
I just saw the illustration of a surgeon's knot. That is what I do- whoever mentioned it. The thread slides fine. I also saw in the illustration that the thread was passed through more than twice. I will try that with the occasional big hole.
 
I thought I had seen it all here, but this is something I haven't tried. Will it work with silk? :)
 
ok, maybe this is what you're saying, but i thought a surgeon's knot was: one knot, where you pass the threads around twice instead of once, then tighten, and then tie a second single-overhand regular old knot on top of that.

in my experience with at least the german attached-needle silk thread, doesn't work super-well, since the doubled knot part is really hard to get set just right. powerpro works like a charm! haven't tried it with BS yet...
 
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