Silver/goldsmithing

[aggiep]

The torch your teacher uses can also be adapted to use a foot bellows. But there are simpler ones to get. I have two one is a Smith little torch that uses Propane and Oxygen. The other is an acetylene torch with a prestolite handle. the little butane torch I find as a back up that I only use when I'm out of gas for the others. Yes it gets hot, yes it can work, but the flame of it is not as good as the bigger torches. The disposable propane torch outfits are just to big of a flame for jewelry. If you plan on doing casting in the future, get a torch that has oxygen with the gas to be used. It will burn much hotter.

Get the Alan Revere book "Professional Goldsmithing" The projects in the book will help you immensely. It shows how to make a tube set ring, one of the bezels you show in your google link, and a basket prong setting. It also goes into how to do bezel sets for pendants. You might also like the project on crocheting silver wire into a chain. The book also goes over the various tools and what they are used for. The DVD's he puts out are the visual aides to these projects. It even shows how to make a simple prong set for a pearl ring. Alan was German trained living over there for many years apprenticing to the best.

I've never bezel set a pearl. I don't think it would be a problem to do if you had some sort of cushion under it to take up the negative space. I'm no pearl expert, but I've seen half pearls that would probably be the best to use for a bezel set. Personally I would want the whole pearl and to show off the full pearl in the setting.

Is your teacher going to go over Chasing and Reposse (sp) work? If so I know a few trciks to make that easier.

Oh and in another post you mentioned getting a ceramic table to do jewelry work on. DON'T! You want a more forgiving surface that can take a hammer blow. For the work that you do with a torch at your bench you will use things like high heat pads, charcol blocks and soldering swivel bases. Here is a good bit of equipment to get as well. http://www.contenti.com/products/soldering/425-100.html It keeps you from breathing the bad fumes at your bench when you solder. When you get your bench/table, get good lighting for it as well. An Optivisor is another thing you should get so you cn see the small things and details you are working with. It becomes more important the older you get and as your eyesight is not as good.

 

[Mervione]

What is the difference between the different gas-types? I was reading through it in the Riogrande catalogue and it seems that Hydrogen is cleaner than the other types, but what about natural gas, propane and acetylene? The only thing I could make out is that natural gas is safer than the other types, which appeals a lot to me. But here in Sweden it?s unfortunaly pretty rare to have gas in your home (I?ve never lived in a place that have gas, nor have I ever known someone that does.) so I?m not sure what to do. It seems that I?ll move to England slightly later in my life but I?m not sure what to do until then. Don?t think I?m silly but those big propane/acetylene/oxygen tubes makes me terrified... I?m so afraid that something bad will happen to them, that they were faulty made and a terrible accident will occur... Just how likely is it? How often do you have to do checkups? And what would happen if the gas did leak and I light a match...? I just keep imagining explosions and accidents... Do you have your torch in your home? I would love to get a workshop sometime, and then I wouldn?t mind those scary things, but I think it?d take lots of time to get used to sleep with those gases in my house...

Oh, and exactly how do you do to use natural gas? How do you connect the gas to the torch tips? Do you need a gas booster?

I?ll make sure to look into his book. I?ve ordered two jewelrymaking books so far and I?ll look through those first and see if they have any projects in them. I?d love to be able to make chains!

I think you are right about the pearlsetting. I think it?s nicest if you can see the whole pearl, but maybe if I find a pearl that?s very blemished on one side. I?m wondering what this setting is called: http://www.thepearloutlet.com/roi/4...ate-Pearl-Ring-11mm-.85ct-14k-TSR-R002185.htm It doesn?t look secure at all, is it a possibility that the pearl is halfdrilled and that it?s attached to the ring with a peg and glue? Also, I think the half pearls you mean are mabe pearls, they look half if you set them. I know druzy sets her mabe pearls in a setting that looks like bezel to me...

I honestly have no idea if he?s going to go over it. I?ll have to figure out the Swedish translations for it and ask him next. Any tips and other help is really, really appreciated, anyway!

I bookmarked the page with that fan-looking thingy. I do believe that if you work a lot with the torch, it?s important in the long run...

About the Optivisor: I don?t need it right now (Will remember for when I do though.) but it made me think about how my teacher do when he?s doing small detail work, he put on two pair of glasses...



Anyway, I very much apologize for posting all these questions in this thread, I think that it would be better if me and Aggie could PM eachother but my computer is going funny so I can?t do that... Still no idea what?s going on with it.

 

[Pearlgully]

Mervione....... several posts ago, I recommended a website entitled ganoksin, specifically for metalsmiths and jewelers. In my opinion, that is where you should be asking your questions about tanks and different gases. This is a pearl forum!

Gail

 

[Mervione]

It?s in the lowly beaders section, though.

I did apologize and I actually can?t PM Aggie (That is the one I feel like I can ask because she?s so kind to answer all my questions.). Is she on Ganoskin?

 

[Caitlin]

This could be in the other stuff section, but I don't think it will get its own forum. We have had other threads containing posts about metals and chains and maille work, but any actual teaching is through links or off forum.

 

[Mervione]

I wouldn?t call this teaching. I ask for opinions rather then ask people to tell me exactly how to do things.

There is lots of other threads in the lowly beader?s section with people asking lots of questions and ask for people?s opinions, but no one ever complain about them.

Also, if there is something wrong with this thread, if it doesn?t fit in this forum at all, then why didn?t it get moved/deleted in the first place?

 

[pearl guide]

No one is complaining here but you, Mervione. I'd love to see 10 posts in a row from you, with no whines or complaints.

I wouldn?t call this teaching. I ask for opinions rather then ask people to tell me exactly how to do things.

I saw in posts # 38

How do you use the flex shaft when setting stones?

-

40 How do you shave off the prongs without a bur? Do you use a saw?

- and 42

Oh, and exactly how do you do to use natural gas? How do you connect the gas to the torch tips? Do you need a gas booster?

that is 3 times I found after a cursory look, when you asked "how" to do this or that. That is what I was referring to when I said teaching is best done off this forum. No one here is qualified to tell you "how" to do stuff with torches and explosive gases. We can only to link you to standard experts who do know.

Just curious- What would be P-G's liability if you followed a non-expert poster's advice about how to connect torch tips and something exploded? Don't tell me you wouldn't blame us for letting someone post something that dangerous over here, getting it wrong, or you misunderstood, causing a major mishap. Jewelers bench stuff is way out of our league and there are pros on the net, who will and can give advice on that topic.

Why not just look at Ganoskin for a few minutes instead of arguing? PearlGully is an experienced jeweler very familiar with how to use torches etc. -she's been in the business for years, not months. Ag-p is not in the business. You asked for advice early on in this thread and pearl gully gave it. Her advice is good, sound, knowledgeable. Haven't you read her other posts? She is trying to help you too, and you don't seem to appreciate it.

There is lots of other threads in the lowly beader?s section with people asking lots of questions and ask for people?s opinions, but no one ever complain about them.

The lowly beaders are mainly concerned with stringing and re-stringing pearls-which are beads after all. And we have at least a dozen pros on that subject. So your question is just argumentative. It is a logical fallacy similar to a cop giving you a ticket for speeding and your argument is "Well other people are speeding and why didn't THEY get a ticket?"

 

[pearl guide]

I forgot this part:

Also, if there is something wrong with this thread, if it doesn?t fit in this forum at all, then why didn?t it get moved/deleted in the first place?

Very general questions are ok, but not asking how to work with explosive gases. I step in when it has gone too far.

Go visit, maybe join, ganoskin for these kinds of questions.

I would prefer not to hear any more defensive arguments or complaints about this subject.

 

[Mervione]

Fine, delete it, or do whatever with it. I wont post anything in this thread anymore.

I have no idea Pearlgully was in the business, how on earth would I know? Aggie seems knowledgable enough.

I?m sure that no one here would post something that is so faulty, that I?d get an explosion. People here might be wrong sometimes. But I?m sure they wouldn?t post advice about something this dangerous if they wasn?t sure. But again, fine. Have it your way.

10 posts in a row without "whine"? I?m so sorry to break your little illusion but hey, check ALL of my posts, OK? I only "complain" when I find that something someone say is terribly wrong.

But again, have it your way mister. Say whatever you like. I don?t listen very well to you but I will stop posting in this thread to ease your mind. And I?ll watch my mouth so I wont "complain" any more.

 

[Caitlin]

Thank you, dear.
And please call me Mam rather than Mister! My youngest child is 6-7 years older than you are.

If you didn't know that PurlGully is a pro, you haven't read her posts or paid attention to who the experts around here are - you are too busy trying to act like one yourself!

Even though you have genuine talent and are smart, you are still a real newbie and appear to have little respect for opinions you don't like. Remember when another older person, said she thought you rude to ask how much someone paid for something? You had asked for opinions and she told you hers, but you reacted very poorly, again no respect for the oldtimers and experts.

This is a forum and you should not attack opinions you don't like-just let them flow by.

How can you be so sure that you aren't playing with fire if you follow information on gas tecniques on a pearl forum? In one of your posts, you expressed extreme concern about just such a blow up.

And besides, you are not being discerning about who you pick to listen to by picking someone who has been here one month - and is not a jeweler, instead of someone who has been here years and is.

I have loved to see you develop as an artist and you still have far to go- not for your talent, but for your exessive worries and gripes and finding things weird. You are demonstating immaturity in these last posts and others as well. Which is to be expected from a 19-20 year old, but you also lack respect towards me, Pattye, Pearlgully and perhaps others who have strived to support you, and yes, even to correct you when you blatantly display your correctable faults..

 

[GemGeek]

Well, knowing a bit about fabrication, it takes time to get the basic techniques conquered and then to build on them by adding new ones. You shoud be learning bezel setting as part of a basic course, but setting gemstones into prongs without damaging the stone and giving a finished look to the prong tips is definitely an advanced skill.

I say go ahead and get yourself a flexshaft. Getting the feel for how it handles will help you to eventually have the control to cut seats, or notches, into the prongs when you do set faceted stones. There is a wonderful book on flexshafts, called Making the Most of Your Flexshaft (At least I think that's the title). You can find a link for it on www.ganoksin.com (also known as Orchid).

And Orchid is a terrific place for learning and there are no dumb questions there when it comes to fabrication. Also, you can get advice on what kind of gas set up is best for you and your area. This is incredibly important. Even the smartest people have made huge blunders and paid the penalty, so I would ask your teacher what options would be best for starting out. When I was a teenager, I made a lot of soldered silver jewelry with an ordinary cheap propane torch and binding wire, so don't feel like you have to invest immediately.

Taking classes will allow you to use other people's equipment until you find something you like using and then making the investment makes more sense. Heck, see if you can take a class on using laser welders - they are unbelievable.

 

[Mikeyy]

I don't see the problem. If someone blows up isn't that just another opportunity for a new thread? "How I blew myself up making Jewelry" Could be fun. Cheer up gang. Were all friends here. Right?








Now I am ducking.....Again

 

[pearlescence]

My advice would be to listen to your class teacher. He has been selected by the college because of his skill. He probably knows what he is talking about as both a silversmith and as someone who is teaching beginners.
I've noticed that you seem to think he is a bit of an idiot. I think that unlikely.
You need to go slowly at first, learn how to make a basic soldered joint, handle hard, medium and easy solders, shape, and polish basic metals before you start to set stones with bezels, never mind making claw settings. I have done that and it is a complex task to get right. Even with very big stones.
you will not be a making jeweller after a couple of classes. it is not that easy.

 

[Mervione]

Just one last post, then I?m out of here.

He is not from the college, he is not from any school at all. He is a private goldsmith.

Why, oh why do you seem to think that I think he is an idiot...? I?ve never, ever, ever, ever said anything that might be taken like that.

I respect him a lot. I respect that he is very traditional and don?t like new ideas. I respect that he seems to follow the Europeian tradition of not setting stones yourself (Even if I don?t like it.). I respect his way of teaching. I respect what he is teaching us.

But, I DON?T respect that he is talking nasty things about other goldsmiths. He is complaining about their designs and their way of working. He complained about one goldsmith that is carving in wax and then send the wax models to China to be casted.

"Casting? Pfft. I make all things by hand! She think she is so good..."

He was complaining about another goldsmith last time. About a girl that have been making pendants in silver, looking as that famous peace sign.

"Do you call this design? THIS ISN?T DESIGN!"

... then I saw a round disc on his desk with his name on. Yeah. Here we are talking design.

And I don?t respect that he said that the material costs would be "about 500" for the whole term. We?re already up to more than 300. 8 lessons to go...

I don?t respect that he wont give me a reciep for the course, unless I nag a lot during the lesson time when I?m supposed to learn. A company is paying for this course and they need a reciep. It is quite expensive for a student.

And Caitlin, I don?t act like an expert. Would an expert ask this many questions?

I respect Pearlgully. I just don?t know her. I?ve never talked with her. I don?t know anything about her. Do you call that "not respecting" someone?

I respect Pattye. We just had different opinions on about wheter it?s rude to ask how much something cost or not. She have helped me a lot, she have given me lots of feedback for my jewelrymaking which I?m always thanking her for.

I?m not sure if I respect you anymore, though. Maybe I do, but I don?t like you any more. I wholeheartly apologize for this. I want to respect and like everyone on this forum and my disliking for you probably hurt me more than it hurt you. I am sorry, and I really mean it.



Last day I went inside the bathroom to be alone for a bit. I was crying. It just feels like I can?t say anything without people here disliking me.

Give me a break, please!

 

[borah]

I'm a very new poster to the forum so I was going to stay quiet but wanted to jump in after these past few posts.

He is not from the college, he is not from any school at all. He is a private goldsmith.

I'm pretty sure Pearlescence meants that he must have been chosen to teach for a reason, either because of technical expertise or teaching experience. You haven't stated outright that you think he's an idiot but that sentiment comes across in a few of your posts where you seemed very skeptical of information that your teacher's told you and his metalsmithing knowledge because of the number of technical questions you've posted to the forum instead of asking your teacher. I think that especially for elementary metalsmithing there's a lot of information available both from your teacher and online sources. Ganoksin is a hugely valuable resource and easy to use. I'm positive that you'd be able to fine your answers there in the archive or if you were to join and post there. And some of your questions could be answered by a simple google search. Ganoksin was brought up early on on the thread and you don't seem to have bothered to try it at all. I followed this thread closely at first and have kept up with it but lost a bit of interest because of the number of posts you had just asking question after question without much else in the posts. I think that may be why the Admin felt the need to step in (in addition to the gas stuff).

As for Caitlin saying that you're acting like an expert I think that has to do with you asking questions in some posts and then not seeming to follow up on the advice posted (ganoksin for example). I think that also refers to not respecting the other posters on the forum. It's not anything you've said outright but some of the posts you write that follow up on other posters' advice doesn't seem to acknowledge that advice at all, even when it's sound and that comes off as though you think you know more than others on a certain topic.

I've been a lurker on this forum for a long time and I have to say I have a lot of respect for Caitlin both for being an admin on a forum that get tons of spammers and being patient with newbies and questions about pearls that must be old hat for her. I've literally gone back years in the forum archives reading threads and she's never been hostile or nasty and I think partly because of this being the internet that you're taking her words to be much harsher than they've been meant. I also don't think anyone here dislikes you; they may be frustrated with some of your posts both in this thread and other parts of the forum that kind of ask the same question differently phrased (like the ebay feedback). I've honestly never seen any poster here (except some old Zeide posts) that belittle or are mean to any other poster, even to spammers.

So just to sum things up I don't think anyone wants you to do anything like not use the forum but perhaps read responses more thoroughly. I'm saying this because you seem upset at these posts that have criticism but I don't think they're meant in a nasty way, more a corrective way so that the forum in general can be a better resource for everyone.

 

[Mervione]

Just want to get a few things straight:

He was NOT chosed by anyone to teach. He choosed to teach HIMSELF. He is holding in the courses himself, no one else have anything at all to do with it.

I DID check out Ganoskin. I DID read the articles. I just didn?t find anything about soldering and gas until earlier today.

The reason why I don?t ask my teacher is because he scares me. I don?t dare to ask some questions to him because I?m afraid he`ll think I?m stupid or just weird. Or that he?ll say something mean to me. This is because of what he have said about other goldsmiths, and even about his own student that go there on another day. He said some nasty things about him, and that was only because he didn?t want to take notes. This is why I have posted all these questions.

So yes, I obviously appreciate and follow people?s advice.

I will just try to stop caring about what people say to me. At least the things that in my opinion are quite cruel;

Again, I do follow the advice that people are giving me. Like not to care as much.

Another thing I want to make clear... The questions about stone setting was for futher reference. I never thought that I could make a master piece or set stones after a couple of lessons. I think that the questions about how to set stones even if it?s out of my league just shows that I?m eager to learn.

 

[robinmce]

This could be in the other stuff section, but I don't think it will get its own forum. We have had other threads containing posts about metals and chains and maille work, but any actual teaching is through links or off forum.

The appropriate response would be
Thank you Caitlin!
then to begin learning visit ganoskin (http://www.ganoksin.com/), perhaps a google search, read a book(s) on the subject, or ask for book recommendations, a few have been offered to you freely!!
I thin it's wonderful you are so passionate about pearls and have decided to learn to make jewelry! You go girl!
But don't look to take offense...
Caitlin and Pearlgully's suggestions were actually sound advice meant to help you gather the information you desire. You do not have to choose to read these remarks as insults!! As Mikey says.. we're all friends here

Robin

 

[Pearlgully]

I just want to clarify..... it is GANOKSIN not ganoskin! When on that website, go into the section called Orchid; that is where you can ask questions. (Some people even refer to ganoksin as orchid).

Without Caitlin's efforts, I wonder if P-G would be as good as it is, or possibly, would it even still continue to exist. So, Caitlin, I say thank you for all the time and hard work you put into this forum. I want you to know how much I appreciate your efforts.

Now, let's all move on!

Gail

 

[borah]

Thanks Pearlgully! I've actually been calling it Ganoskin all this time and never even realized when I was on the website that it was Ganoksin. That's going to take getting used to.

go into the section called Orchid; that is where you can ask questions. (Some people even refer to ganoksin as orchid).

Have to second that, that's what I use more so than the articles. Orchid's great for everything really, sources, materials, whatever you can think of.

This is because of what he have said about other goldsmiths, and even about his own student that go there on another day. He said some nasty things about him, and that was only because he didn?t want to take notes. This is why I have posted all these questions.

That's really a shame. It might be a good idea to look for a different teacher if you can. If there's a particular reason you chose this teacher (renown for being particularly good at some aspect of metalsmithing) you might be able to find someone with the same specialty. The reason for taking a course is so that you can ask as many questions as you can.

 

[Mervione]

I totally agree. However, I?ll give him some more time and see if my opinion about him changes. I feel I want to go on all lessons first as well, to get the most out of it. All the other courses for this term have started. (I?ve had a look around.) But there?s always next term, I guess I?ll know for sure by then how I feel about my teacher. If I still don?t dare to ask then I`ll change course.

I might move to England in the close future as I?ve said in another post, so it would be good in a way if I could find a course there that might have a nicer teacher, one that I dare to ask...