dkan 168
Member
As mentioned in my other thread, to my untrained eyes, I cannot see or appreciate the subtle differences between the 3 strands of trademark gem quality strands from PP and TPO.
DK
Mikimoto vs. everything else
- Thread starter PerfectPearls
- Start date
As mentioned in my other thread, to my untrained eyes, I cannot see or appreciate the subtle differences between the 3 strands of trademark gem quality strands from PP and TPO.
DK
dkan 168
Member
Sorry, however, I do not interpret the details the same as you do.
It describes what Gem Fresh grade is in the third paragraph. However, it does not say the strand is made of Gem Fresh grade pearls, it says it "easily received the highest grade of Freshwater pearls possible 'Gem Quality'".
Likewise, PP's "gem quality" pearls are pearls that do not make the Freshadama grade, as confirmed by Jeremy.
Perhaps Terry could confirm
DK
barbie biggs
New Member
I confess my eye is drawn to that ball bearing shine. But, when I look, stare, at the pearls (I rest my eyes on them a lot), it is the orient that continues to please long term. When the 'oil slick' isn't there the pearls just aren't as interesting.
I still want the Hanadama, but they would end up just another necklace to wear for some occassion. My freshadama vs akoya necklace made by PP for me is more like an old friend. (And the best of both worlds).
barbie
I still want the Hanadama, but they would end up just another necklace to wear for some occassion. My freshadama vs akoya necklace made by PP for me is more like an old friend. (And the best of both worlds).
barbie
Pearl Dreams
Pearl Enthusiast
dkan168,
If they were not Gem Fresh, then in my opinion, the words Gem Fresh would have no business being there.
By all means phone and ask, though, anyone who is thinking of buying them-- and please post what you learn about them.
If they were not Gem Fresh, then in my opinion, the words Gem Fresh would have no business being there.
By all means phone and ask, though, anyone who is thinking of buying them-- and please post what you learn about them.
laurenb
New Member
Freshwaters are gorgeous, but they are not a replacement for akoyas, nor are akoyas a replacement for freshwaters in the jewelry wardrobe.
I'd look at Hanadama Akoyas from Pearl Paradise, and also consider their AAA or even AA akoya necklaces, depending on what you want to spend. Any of those would be a step up from mediocre to poor quality akoyas.
Personally, I never plan to own anything from Mikimoto unless I fall in love with a vintage brooch on eBay or something similar/small. I want to pay for pearls, not a brand name that isn't even that well known to the general population. Sure it's the best known pearl brand, but that isn't saying much.
waimeamomi
Natural Pearl
Hmmmm - I'd say find a strand that you really, really love and then worry about what they are. Isn't that really what it's all about? As long as the pricing is fair market, and they are good quality, get what you like the best. Think of it as a blind wine tasting, where you are only going by your response and not any preconceived ideas or info. My friend who is a wine specialist/wine store owner, says that in blind tastes the less expensive, less known and less number rated wines often score higher. You will be wearing them, so you want to love them! Just my thought.
PerfectPearls
New Member
The problem with internet shopping is that I cannot look at a dozen (or more) strands to compare them. So I pretty much have to rely on the opinions of others who have seen them to make a decision on what to order. It certainly would be a lot easier if I could see all the different kinds!
I am really turned off of akoya since there is the possibility that they will not be long-lasting due to thin nacre. So in that case, I'd probably avoid Mikimoto and even hanadamas. If I were to spend $1500+ on a necklace, it needs to be able to be an heirloom. It doesn't sound like the akoyas are going to fit that requirement.
I can wear and enjoy gem quality fresh-waters, and if they last to be passed down to my girls, great. If not, I won't have as huge of an investment in them. I do have high hopes that they will last like natural pearls do, though!
I am really turned off of akoya since there is the possibility that they will not be long-lasting due to thin nacre. So in that case, I'd probably avoid Mikimoto and even hanadamas. If I were to spend $1500+ on a necklace, it needs to be able to be an heirloom. It doesn't sound like the akoyas are going to fit that requirement.
I can wear and enjoy gem quality fresh-waters, and if they last to be passed down to my girls, great. If not, I won't have as huge of an investment in them. I do have high hopes that they will last like natural pearls do, though!
Pearl Dreams
Pearl Enthusiast
If you take reasonable care of them, they should last. Put pearls on last; don't get them in contact with perfumes, makeup, lotions, hairspray etc. Store them separately so they don't get scratched. After wearing, wipe them with the little micro fiber cloth that comes with them, to get body oils off them. From what I've read, freshwater pearls have slightly softer nacre than Akoyas so take extra care not to scratch them.
PerfectPearls
New Member
Thank you! I did know to wait and take them out once I am ready and finished with make-up and hairspray. I didn't realize FW nacre was softer, so that is good to know.
laurenb
New Member
That's very interesting-- I didn't know that either.
I can't speak for anyone, of course, but I think the helpful folks at any of the three businesses I mentioned could give you photos of strands to compare. It's not the same as seeing them in person, I know, but it's better than a big brick and mortar markup.
Hanadamas, unless I'm gravely mistaken, must meet minimum nacre thickness requirements. The really perishable akoyas are thin-skinned because they were quickly produced, but no one here is going to steer you towards sellers who would push that sort of akoya.
Freshwaters are definitely as beautiful as akoyas in their way, so if you go that route for now, it's certainly not a compromise IMO. But if akoya upgrade is your goal right now, you have good options too. I know you'll find something you love!
I can't speak for anyone, of course, but I think the helpful folks at any of the three businesses I mentioned could give you photos of strands to compare. It's not the same as seeing them in person, I know, but it's better than a big brick and mortar markup.
Hanadamas, unless I'm gravely mistaken, must meet minimum nacre thickness requirements. The really perishable akoyas are thin-skinned because they were quickly produced, but no one here is going to steer you towards sellers who would push that sort of akoya.
Freshwaters are definitely as beautiful as akoyas in their way, so if you go that route for now, it's certainly not a compromise IMO. But if akoya upgrade is your goal right now, you have good options too. I know you'll find something you love!
PerfectPearls
New Member
Thanks, Lauren! I know I'd have to get the longer strand in freshwater, so that may be my first purchase. Then I'll know if I want an 18" strand in fw or akoya, perhaps! I really like pendants, too! So I'll learn pearls as I go!
Caitlin
Well-known member
Heh,heh,heh, you're hooked. This is the right place to be hooked on pearls!
laurenb
New Member
True... PerfectPearls, I realize these may seem like odd questions now, but if you were to accumulate 8ish spools of spectra fishing filament and a few spindles of silk over oh, let's say the next 6-9 months, do you have well lit place you know you'd like to keep them? Do you get stone bruises easily? How do you feel about realizing you're staring at your own chest/upper torso in public?
Caitlin
Well-known member
There is no real official definition of grades in CWFP, The definition of each grade is a consensus and quality dealers will not call A's AAA's.
AAAA and over is strictly eBay hyperbole.
Cultured pearls come in a continuum for quality. Say I have 12 pearl necklaces of A grade, 12 of AA and 12 of AAA. the 12 A grade strands will range from the bottom of the A grade to ones just short of AA. Likewise AA to AAA has a range of quality. Then AAA starts right where AA leaves off. The AAA go from better than AA to the best pearls you can imagine. A, AA, and AAA are the top 1% of the pearls harvest. Anything under A goes to the commercial pearl shows.
To repeat, those AAA's range from better than AA to the best pearls you can imagine. The top % of AAA grade is gem quality and/ or gets a trademark name. I think this is about 1 to 3% of the AAA grade. So these are rare pearls indeed.
As for the moh scale of gem hardness of fresh vs. salt water pearls, I have heard that the fresh are slightly softer too, but I don't remember a reference for that claim at all- or how old the claim is. If it is over five years since the claim was made, things may have changed.
In any case, what that means is that natural sea pearls may be slightly harder than natural fresh waters, but when one is counting 1 to 2mm of nacre thickness surrounding an MoP bead, I'd say solid nacre CFWP's won't be as damaged by scratching and scratches will be less visible on CFWP's than on akoyas, esp. at 1mm of nacre and less.
As for akoyas right now, the best origin for them appears to be Viet Nam where the nacre thickness is better than required for hanadama. Veitnamese akoya dealers are still very rare, but we have a seller TPO, that has them.
I remember the Walmart strands in 2004- no luster- the pearls looked soft and easy to carve. The improvements in technique in the last few years resulting in excellent luster may mean that the best CFWP pearls will be comparable in hardness to seawater pearls.
Anyone have definitive references for the high quality CFWP's being less hard?
AAAA and over is strictly eBay hyperbole.
Cultured pearls come in a continuum for quality. Say I have 12 pearl necklaces of A grade, 12 of AA and 12 of AAA. the 12 A grade strands will range from the bottom of the A grade to ones just short of AA. Likewise AA to AAA has a range of quality. Then AAA starts right where AA leaves off. The AAA go from better than AA to the best pearls you can imagine. A, AA, and AAA are the top 1% of the pearls harvest. Anything under A goes to the commercial pearl shows.
To repeat, those AAA's range from better than AA to the best pearls you can imagine. The top % of AAA grade is gem quality and/ or gets a trademark name. I think this is about 1 to 3% of the AAA grade. So these are rare pearls indeed.
As for the moh scale of gem hardness of fresh vs. salt water pearls, I have heard that the fresh are slightly softer too, but I don't remember a reference for that claim at all- or how old the claim is. If it is over five years since the claim was made, things may have changed.
In any case, what that means is that natural sea pearls may be slightly harder than natural fresh waters, but when one is counting 1 to 2mm of nacre thickness surrounding an MoP bead, I'd say solid nacre CFWP's won't be as damaged by scratching and scratches will be less visible on CFWP's than on akoyas, esp. at 1mm of nacre and less.
As for akoyas right now, the best origin for them appears to be Viet Nam where the nacre thickness is better than required for hanadama. Veitnamese akoya dealers are still very rare, but we have a seller TPO, that has them.
I remember the Walmart strands in 2004- no luster- the pearls looked soft and easy to carve. The improvements in technique in the last few years resulting in excellent luster may mean that the best CFWP pearls will be comparable in hardness to seawater pearls.
Anyone have definitive references for the high quality CFWP's being less hard?
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Pearl Dreams
Pearl Enthusiast
Caitlin, I've been looking unsuccessfully for the post in which one of the vendors mentioned that CFWP scratch more easily when held in the clamp (?) used to hold pearls during drilling.
Pearl Dreams
Pearl Enthusiast
Okay, I found the thread and the posts:
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/freshwater-pearls/1649-softer-harder-pearls.html#post14575
07-08-2007, 10:37 AM
The Pearl Outlet
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Freshwater pearls are softer than Akoya, South Sea, and Tahitian pearls, and do scratch much more easily. This becomes very apparent when you drill a large number of pearls for setting. The cups on a pearl drill will easily mar a freshwater pearl, but will almost never mar one of these other types.
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/freshwater-pearls/1649-softer-harder-pearls.html#post16653
jshepherd
Super Moderator
Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 2,621
Freshwater pearls are often described as more porous than other types of pearls.
The hardness of freshwater pearls when compared to other types of pearls is not something I have personally seen examined or contrasted. Cultured pearls, as you know, are 3.5 to 4.5 on Moh's scale. This is soft, but the platelet structure of the nacre makes them seem harder and more resilient.
Freshwater pearls have the thickest aragonte platelets of all cultured pearls, averaging more than 0.5-1.8. The thickness of the aragonite platelets correspond to the speed of nacre deposition which is influenced by species and location.
The akoya, for example, will only produce 0.15 mm per year in Ago Bay, but 0.3 mm on Kyushu Island (hence the thicker average nacer of akoya cultured in China). The average aragonite layer thickness corresponds to 0.35 to 0.5 microns, and a diameter of 3 to 6.
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https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/freshwater-pearls/1649-softer-harder-pearls.html#post14575
07-08-2007, 10:37 AM
The Pearl Outlet
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Freshwater pearls are softer than Akoya, South Sea, and Tahitian pearls, and do scratch much more easily. This becomes very apparent when you drill a large number of pearls for setting. The cups on a pearl drill will easily mar a freshwater pearl, but will almost never mar one of these other types.
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/freshwater-pearls/1649-softer-harder-pearls.html#post16653
jshepherd
Super Moderator
Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 2,621
Freshwater pearls are often described as more porous than other types of pearls.
The hardness of freshwater pearls when compared to other types of pearls is not something I have personally seen examined or contrasted. Cultured pearls, as you know, are 3.5 to 4.5 on Moh's scale. This is soft, but the platelet structure of the nacre makes them seem harder and more resilient.
Freshwater pearls have the thickest aragonte platelets of all cultured pearls, averaging more than 0.5-1.8. The thickness of the aragonite platelets correspond to the speed of nacre deposition which is influenced by species and location.
The akoya, for example, will only produce 0.15 mm per year in Ago Bay, but 0.3 mm on Kyushu Island (hence the thicker average nacer of akoya cultured in China). The average aragonite layer thickness corresponds to 0.35 to 0.5 microns, and a diameter of 3 to 6.
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Pearl Dreams
Pearl Enthusiast
Strack, after mentioning the hardness range of 3.5 to 4.5, says "Black pearls from the Pacific Ocean or from Mexico tend to be harder." (p. 287) But no studies are mentioned.
PerfectPearls
New Member
Thanks for all the information! So have you ladies noticed wear and tear on your freshwater strands? I've always taken good care of my pearls, so I don't think I'd have a problem with FW, but I suppose it is good to be informed about what to expect!
Raisondetre
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2007
- Messages
- 941
Well, the trick is to have a few to rotate through, you get minimal wear and tear on each. Ain't that the perfect solution? It's all for the sake of the pearls!
