Another plea to explain water and orient

[knotty panda]

Valeria: I'm dumber than a box of rocks. This whole orient, water, overtone thing confuses me. Would you mind being very specific and saying: post # ___ displays ___________ because ___________. I would really appreciate the help. I know you do so much on this forum and I'm not asking you to do it right this very minute as this wonderful thread Gemmy has created needs to remain, but, as time permits, would you mind showing me, please? I'm sure other confused students would love to see things with your eye. Thanks!

 

[Valeria101]

Knotty, I am no expert and chances are that the way I am understanding these things it isn't the 'right'. In the previous post I called 'water' the transparence evident in two of the broques pearls (the captions note as much), and 'orient' the rainbow irridescence evident in many of the pictures also of baroque pearls.

It looks like the pictures taken really close up show those better, and those also seem to be of baroque pearls rather then round, while baroque shapes are reputed to make irridescence more visible in general.

 

[knotty panda]

You could as well call this thread 'orient and water debunked', as it cntans such wonderful examples...

Thank you!

Valeria: Unfortunately my question was moved from it's original thread of GemGeek's Paspaley photos into another area separating it from the reason I asked the question. So, as a standalone comment in a new thread, it has no preface and makes no sense.

I was hoping you would describe what you are seeing in those precise photos that elicited your comment. It's probably too difficult to do now.

 

[GemGeek]

Well, let's put a few photos here for evaluation.









The last one is almost transparent.

Cheers,
Blaire

 

[Sueki]

Hello Blaire, and good morning,
I'm sure you should be tucked up in bed, fast asleep,! but thanks for the photos.
Knotty, for me, the water is best seen in the first and second photos.
The pearls appear to have a transparent coating, like liquid, clear glass, with the colours shining through from beneath that coating.
As Blaire says, a transparency effect to the outside of the pearls.

 

[GemGeek]

I couldn't sleep. Something about happy hour sleep disruption! I had drinks and appetizers at Roppongi in La Jolla, here in the San Diego area. I went with Mona and a friend of hers. Mona just got back from Sydney, where she extended her stay after the pearl tour.

We walked down to the ocean to see the seals. It really felt like we were back on tour, eating and drinking like there was no tomorrow!

Making new friends was another great part of the pearl tour.

Cheers,
Blaire

 

[Sueki]

I'm not surprised that you can't sleep. You must be on a long-term high after your recent trip.
If it were me, I probably wouldn't sleep for a month...
Hope you manage to snatch a few hours.

 

[knotty panda]

OH THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS GOING TO HELP SO MUCH TO HAVE THE PICS WITH THE COMMENTS!!!!!!! I am so very touched that you went to that trouble!

Blaire: Sounds like you are basking in the afterglow. Let's hope it's a long and enjoyable one.

 

[knotty panda]

I SEE IT! LOL! I REALLY DO! Sueki when you PMd me and I read your description I could read the words, but it just didn't click. Now, since we have the pics, it does! I think I'm getting it! Happy dance

 

[pernula]

Beautiful pearls!

Blaire: so we can only get this quality of white SS at Paspaley's own stores, is that right?

Thanks,
pernula

 

[Caitlin]

Knotty
Ana answered your question before I moved the thread.

I am glad to see photos here too. and just think, in the future it will be easy to find for others.

Please pardon me but I like to think of who is going to read this later on down the road....

 

[GemGeek]

Beautiful pearls!

Blaire: so we can only get this quality of white SS at Paspaley's own stores, is that right?

Thanks,
pernula

That's a good question. The pearls in the four photos above are very large and of unusually high quality. That would make them the rarest of the rare. My guess is they would be sold to designers or just kept as part of Paspaley's collection until a request comes in. They had a couple of spectacular pendants in their store, but not as large.

When we sat down to look at the pearls, they would bring out trays of different sizes or qualities as we searched for the right item. They were extremely accomodating. What you saw in the display room was only a small part of their inventory.

There are a lot of other producers, but Paspaley has continuously improved their production over a very long period. When we inspected the morning's first-growth harvest, it was astounding how few pearls there were that could be considered defective. Out of a conference table full of pearls, there were only about eight bad pearls - amazing.

Other producers have great pearls, too, as witnessed at trade shows. Paspaley saves the very top pearls for their own retail operations and sells the great pearls to high-end brick and mortar stores (you can guess who). Then they sell a lot of very good pearls wholesale to the trade.

Jeremy can probably better answer the question than I can.

Cheers,
Blaire

 

[pernula]

Thank Blaire, your description of the shopping experience and their production is very interesting.

There are a lot of other producers, but Paspaley has continuously improved their production over a very long period. When we inspected the morning's first-growth harvest, it was astounding how few pearls there were that could be considered defective. Out of a conference table full of pearls, there were only about eight bad pearls - amazing.

Only eight bad pearls out of the lot? They must have a very good shaman onboard!

Now that they have achieved such astounding efficency, I would think the logical next thing for their aquaculture scientist(s) would be to figure out ways to improve quality, like producing more of those pearls in your photos. Do you think the quality of SS pearls have improved in the last few years?

Regards,
pernula

 

[GemGeek]

Thank Blaire, your description of the shopping experience and their production is very interesting.




Only eight bad pearls out of the lot? They must have a very good shaman onboard!

Now that they have achieved such astounding efficency, I would think the logical next thing for their aquaculture scientist(s) would be to figure out ways to improve quality, like producing more of those pearls in your photos. Do you think the quality of SS pearls have improved in the last few years?

Regards,
pernula

Jeremy went to the operations the day after I did, when they were supposed to be harvesting the second-growth pearls. He said they had to open 7 or 8 demonstration oysters before they got a couple of good pearls. Maybe the Shaman had to call in sick.

South Sea pearl producers in general are getting better. Paspaley said, and I've heard this from many sources for the last couple of years - baroques, but especially circles, are disappearing as they perfect their technique.

Fortunately, circled Tahitians are darn plentiful!

I wonder, though, about those monster baroques. Maybe they catch them on the x-ray and put them back for another two years undisturbed. Or maybe the phenomenal liquid lustre is just a fluke. Maybe someone here knows the secret. Valeria?

Cheers,
Blaire

 

[Caitlin]

The Paspaleys should be ashamed they sent such lusterless necklaces to Stuller's booth at the Tucson Gem fair in 2005. They put some of the largest, roundest, whitest strands on display with names like "The Athena," etc. I put another one on and really looked at it close up. I handled several and looked close up, then walked away thinking I didn't care for large, round and white PPB's ar all....... NONE had the slightest orient.

In fact, that is the only kind most of us have seen and we commonly think of SSP as being large round and white but lacking in orient and water.

I would like to know what percent they grow does have orient. And I think rather than trying to perfect large and round, they need to focus on producing lively pearls with water, orient no matter how circle or baroque -like the ones shown above. Now THAT would be a good project.

Blaire's explanation that they save the best for their own stores reflects an attitude that may be good for them, but it means that the vast majority of us that never sees a Paspaley pearl with water or orient and wouldn't even know suchlike did exist.

In fact I remember mentioning this when someone said that Paspaley says ONLY their SSPs have water or orient (I forget which he said) I took the oppourtunity to disagree with them based on the dozen or so Paspaley necklaces I have seen close up. Necklaces to be sold in America-- and altough large and white and round- that was it. No noticible orient. And I think others agreed with me.

So, marketing the plain ones in America has its downside- that is what we think Paspaley SSPearls look like.......and the above are a revelation.

 

[pernula]

South Sea pearl producers in general are getting better. Paspaley said, and I've heard this from many sources for the last couple of years - baroques, but especially circles, are disappearing as they perfect their technique.

I agree with Caitlin and am disappointed that they are aiming for more round pearls rather than more beautiful pearls. I guess for some executives of a large company, beauty is only secondary to return on investment. As long as they perceive the general consumers care more about round and big, they would be aiming for those qualities.

In Jeremy's trip journal https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1822, he mentioned that one of them called him the Pearl-Guide fellow. So even though they are aware of us, the opinion of a group of pearl lovers who value orient, water and luster is probably still relatively minor compared to the actual market forces out there.

Thanks for the information again, Blaire.

Pernula

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Pernula
I think that there aren't enough with luminesencent luster (My words for orient plus water) to go around and they keep them. ALL of them. I think the market would grab ones colored like the above, if they were available here.

Right now Americans live in the bliss of ignorance when it comes to seeing the best Paspaley pearls...........Paspaley probably HOPEs that we don't start spreading word of the above around, because even if the market demands them, we won't get them here in the USA-

 

[GemGeek]

I heard about the strands at Tucson. Everyone was talking about them with awe. I heard they were enormous and silvery-white. My tiny friend Leslie tried them on, too, and she thought they were fabulous.

Most people are not pearl-obsessed like we are. We want orient in our pearls like other people want fire in their diamonds.

When we had the conference table full of pearls, we saw very little orient. Mostly they were round and smooth (and luminous), which are the traits most coveted by your average consumer. I've seen Paspaley pearls with orient in the past, but they were usually in designer pieces.

It would be wonderful if they could supply more pearls like the ones in the photos. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes! Maybe they're "listening".

Cheers,
GemGeek

 

[Sueki]

I've been fascinated by this orient / overtone thing, and, after an afternoon playing around with some Cortez pearls while wearing a Tahitian bracelet, I'm describing what I see.
The Tahitians have gorgeous rainbow colours that seem to emanate from the surface of the pearl, and the colour changes as the pearl moves around.
The Cortez pearls look like little sacs of liquid pearl that has different colours within the liquid.
Rather as if a bottle of silver grey pearl nail polish has had several opals dropped into it. You look through the glass bottle at the silvery grey, liquid pearl iridescence, and there are flashes of multi colours from within the liquid.
Move the bottle (pearl), and different colours appear from within.

 

[Josh]

Hi Sueki, I'm probably not the right one to be talking here as all I know are Tahitian pearls (which are similar to Cortez pearls) but what you are describing is what I think of as orient. I have been told on this board that it is NOT orient and instead the "overtones" of the pearl. What I can't make sense of is why something as magical and unique to pearls as that would have a crap name like overtone and not a beautiful one like orient? To me the two pearls below are examples of good (left) and not so good (right) orient.