Use of the term "Pearl Plated Beads"

[pearltime]

I thought I would put my 2 cents in since this topic seems to be endless. You know I am one of those people who knows the real value of diamonds and I know how plentiful they are. Still, I love diamonds . That's what I want, diamonds. I don't want rubies,emeralds etc. I don't care if there are 8 billion diamonds on the planet. I think they are beautiful ..I feel the same way about pearls. I couldn't care less if Akoyas are called pearl plated and I don't care if they don't last 100 years. For $300.00 I'll buy another necklace when they wear out. I am not rich but I am a consumer. I don't want junk but Akoya pearls sold by reputable dealers on the web are a good value. Costume jewelry costs as much,for heavens sake. I've seen potato pearls at the jewelry store for more than what akoyas cost on the web. Potato pearl necklaces sell for $70.00 or so on the homeshopping networks.. I can appreciate the difficulty in cultivating salt water pearls. I like the shape of akoyas and I like their lustre. I will never have a natural salt water pearl so for a nice piece of pearl jewelry I'll take the pearlplated pearls anytime over freshwater. I like freshwater for costume jewelry.
I bet I am the average customer/consumer.
I'm going to take a hard look at the freshadamas, though.

 

[jshepherd]

The trepidation is understood yet unwarranted. True, there are strong beliefs on this board and strong opinions. But that is what a forum is for.
There are what I like to call "pearl roundtables" at different jewelry shows like those hosted by the JCK. These groups sit and discuss issues related to pearls. I feel the method is a bit archaic given the advent of the Internet. Here more issues are discussed on a daily basis than all "round tables" combined - the world over. Soon, those who would prepare their arguments for presentation to hosting table members will have no choice but to come here to defend or promote their views. This forum is one of a kind - the only like it in the world - and rapidly becoming the most popular "pearl" Website in the world. I do predict every real player that has access to the Internet will have a voice on this board within the next year - it is something they cannot ignore.
Those who have discounted it from the beginning claiming ?cingluar points of view?, as once so eloquently put (one who had obviously not yet read the forum to find any singular points of view), will either join, or be left by the wayside and completely out of the loop. The Internet is the strongest platform the world has ever seen, and where we are we stand alone.

 

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy et al,

It is a good thing to have variety for every taste. If everybody shared my tastes it would soon become impossible to pay for them anymore. So, all you akoya lovers, stick with it and leave me my tissue nucleated pearls. If you want your pearls as fashion accessories rather than heirloom pieces, that is perfectly fine with me. However, I think the akoya industry still has a long way to go to come up with a product that I can take seriously.

Zeide

 

[Caitlin]

This particular discussion is one I would like to see fully debated by authorities around the world. Let the gloves come off! This is a deep issue and has not yet found a “forum”, unless it be here. I think it has been a true rite of passage in defining what this forum will and won’t do.

Bravo, all participants!

 

[Slraep]

I've a funny feeling that I really ought to get cracking with my tissue nucleated pearl collecting. Nothing's happening till I finish collecting, okay.

Slraep

 

[Richard W. Wise]

Well I did putdown akoyas not because there aren't a few strands out there with a reasonably thick nacre level, the old GIA definition of "thick" was 0.50mm.

Seems like the Tahitian Government acted fairly quickly and responsibly to stop export of thin nacre Tahitians and stablize the market. Japan should do the same because sooner of later CBS or some other large media outlet is going to take it in their head to investigate pearls.

Perhaps a high profile legal case such as the one that brought the emerald market crashing down will be required to wake up our friends in Japan.

When I wrote my first article on this topic a prominent dealer responded in essence that the Japanese market produces the quality that the American market demands. Thus, the responsibility for the poor quality of the product lies with the consumer who is stupid enough to buy it.

Thats the same sort of argument used by drug dealers, pimps and child pornographers. An interesting example of blaming the victim.

Now there is plenty wrong with CFWP. Just about every technique has been used to bamboozle the consumer; dyeing, irradiation, "Japanese process", I guess vapor deposition, heating, I'm sure I missed something. But, this thread is about akoya pearls!

 

[perlas]

two weeks ago, i went to a store and saw some unmounted but drilled akoyas. some were half drilled. these are unsold 10-year old akoyas. outside it was lustrous but i was shocked to see the nacre separated from the bead nucleus. the nacre coating was around .7mm-.8mm for 6mm rounds which is thicker than most cheap akoyas these days.

i'm no expert but those akoyas really looked awful.

along side were low quality SSP and tahitians... drilled and also unsold for 10 years but they still looked the same.

 

[Slraep]

They want the sapphire. It's too much trouble and too time consuming to find a sapphire that isn't.

This is unfortunatly very true, Pearltime. I agree.

In my neck of the woods, you can find Akoyas, SSs and Tahtians very easily. If you want something a little more exotic, forget it. I can't even get another strand of non nucleated Tahiti baroques here. The Kasumiga bead nucleated pearl earrings my husband bought me four years ago, cost an arm and a leg. When I think back at the forking over of that astronomical amount of momey, I can only now deduce that it was due to one thing. Temporary insanity.

What are my options? Well, besides working hard at charming other generous collectors to part with some of their collectables( although I strongly suspect it is out of pity on their part), the only other recourse is to buy online from people I do not know, and goods I cannot initially see.

Last year the Canadian dollar was only worth 50% of the US dollar, so besides that expensive fact, if I recieve goods from outside of the country I will also have to pay an additional 15% Canadian sales tax+6% luxury tax+ shipping+ many times a Canadian customs handling fee of 20 dollars or a brokerage fee of close to 100 dollars(thank you Fed-ex).

Imagine if I do not like the goods. All the above has to be reversed.

If one loves pearls the way I do, this hassle is bearable. But for a huge chunk of pearl buyers, this is not. It's just way easier to pop into the corner jeweler's and buy whatever they are selling at the moment.

It should be a 50/50 effort. The informed consumer pressuring the retailer into carryings better and more diverse goods, and the retailer, having his client's best interest at heart, choosing more critically and widely in terms of quality for price.

Slraep

 

[Richard W. Wise]

Well perhaps pimps and child pornographers is a bit strong. The comparison was indirect, I was making a point.

I don't agree with Zeide about the true connoisseurs unless we wish to define a real collector as only those people who collect natural pearls. The real issue is durabilty. Sure the thin-skinned stuff is cheaper but the client is told he/she is getting a pearl and he/she isn't told that they are likely to wear out in a few months.

The old Mikimoto stuff was left in the shell for up to five years. The Japanese pearl industry has been cutting time in shell year by year, cheapening the product, dramatically reducing nacre thickness and hence durability. But hell, there cheap and if I don't sell them to her someone else will.

mea culpa,

 

[Richard W. Wise]

Thanks to a lawsuit by the French dealer Leonard Rosenthal, the market does understand the difference between cultured and natural pearls. Despite that, the market has embraced the cultured pearl to the extent that the natural peal market has passed into oblivian. The cultured pearl was introduced in the 20s by the 40s the natural pearl market was dead.

Think about that: It is the only example of a "cultured" gem that has supplanted the natural product. Ruby was first synthesised in 1890. Judging from the number that have been brought to me for ID over the years it was aggressively marketed and sold well but it never came close to replacing the natural. When asked, most gemologists will say that there are no more natural pearls but, why not? The pearl beds have had one of the longests siestas in history.

Now lets face it our Zeide is a snob! I don't mean that in a pejorative sense, I am a snob too. If it has a bead, Zeide rejects it, its plated, that it! My approach is a bit different. Excepting translucency (water), thick-nacred cultured pearls can have, it seems to me all the characteristics, luster, mirror, overtone, orient, that made the natural pearl desirable. In short, they can be just as beautiful. Not only that but the paint job doesn't wear out.

Goodnight and good luck,

 

[youngster]

I think I'm fairly representative of the average consumer. I knew zero about pearls when I began searching for a new strand months and months ago. I got little help from the handful of jewelers that I casually questioned about pearls. I had to go digging myself, and eventually fell over this site.

What I want is correct information, presented in a straight forward manner. The pros and cons of each choice. Armed with that, I'll make the decision of what kind of pearl to buy. An informed consumer should not be feared; it will result in a happy, satisfied customer. Who will share that happy, satisfying experience with his/her friends and relatives. Who will return to buy more pearls from that same vendor because of the trust that vendor earned.

 

[jerin]

Cultured Pearls - customer or seller

This is unfortunatly very true, Pearltime. I agree.

In my neck of the woods, you can find Akoyas, SSs and Tahtians
very easily. If you want something a little more exotic, forget it.
I can't even get another strand of non nucleated Tahiti baroques here.
The Kasumiga bead nucleated pearl earrings my husband bought me
four years ago, cost an arm and a leg. When I think back at the forking over of that astronomical amount of momey, I can only now deduce that it was due to one thing. Temporary insanity.

What are my options? Well, besides working hard at charming other generous collectors to part with some of their collectables( although I strongly suspect it is out of pity on their part), the only other recourse is to buy online from people I do not know, and goods I cannot initially see.

Slraep,

I couldn´t have it said better myself...

Take a little comfort from the fact that VAT here in Sweden is 25%, customs take everything between 2,5 and 4% and a fee of almost 14 dollars and that every time I order. The VAT is calculated AFTER the customs fee and on top of it then the "postage fee".

If I have to return something, my costs could be quite considerable, so as a customer I really am depending on the skill and honesty of my sellers.

I have to say though that I am very satisfied with my online-sellers (all of them on this forum of course).

My country is not even ashamed of trying to rip off its people.. whenever it gets a chance.

Jerin

 

[mikehrz]

I think I'm fairly representative of the average consumer. I knew zero about pearls when I began searching for a new strand months and months ago. I got little help from the handful of jewelers that I casually questioned about pearls. I had to go digging myself, and eventually fell over this site.

What I want is correct information, presented in a straight forward manner. The pros and cons of each choice. Armed with that, I'll make the decision of what kind of pearl to buy. An informed consumer should not be feared; it will result in a happy, satisfied customer. Who will share that happy, satisfying experience with his/her friends and relatives. Who will return to buy more pearls from that same vendor because of the trust that vendor earned.

Speaking as another (now satisfied) consumer, I say "Right on!" in a loud voice. Reputable dealers will always desire educated customers for this very reason. Only frauds and ebay sellers have to fear educated consumers.

 

[Richard W. Wise]

Jerin,

I'll pay your VAT if you pay for my health insurance.

 

[jerin]

VAT versus Health insurance

VAT versus Health insurance

Richard,

on that I have to agree with You. Still, our taxes are overall very high and as You probably know, we pay the highest taxes in Europe, if not in the world. Everything has it?s price.....

Inge Jernberg

 

[Caitlin]

Nor do I think a freshwater pearl potato necklace should sell for $350.00. Of course an unual design would be worth the extra cost.

While I think you are right, fashion jewelry is not necessarily priced by how much it cost to make. It is priced in certain ranges to meet market expectations. The same freshwater pearl potato necklace is going to sell for far more at Nordstrom?s than at a craft fair.

Last year I saw a potato pearl 8mm necklace about 24? long for $350.00 in an upscale second hand furniture/estate sale store! I had a passing thought I should take some stuff over there and try and sell it while they were buying at that kind of price!

 

[youngster]

There is plenty of information on the web to research any item,including pearls.

Of course there is. And, buyer beware, no matter what you are purchasing. However, when I google pearls, it sends me to many of the sites represented here and to a recap of a 1998 NOVA special on pearls. So, again I say, that I must rely on those who sell pearls to help inform and educate me, though I certainly take full responsibility for educating myself and for the final purchase decision.

 

[Caitlin]

I checked out the last few posts when I was answering slraep, nice discussion, rounding out the "buyer beware" info
.
Personally, I knew nothing about cultured pearls when I came here. I had a strand of Bahraini pearls as a youngster, but a plain 15" of small graduated pearls from 2-4.5mm were about as square as you could get in looks when I became 21, so I quit wearing them for many years.

When they came out, I used CFWP pearls as a beader and kept upgrading as the market did. I did not know what an akoya or a mikimoto was until I came here to this forum. I did know "cultured" pearls had a bead inside. When I came here I found out the Tahitians and SSP have a bead inside and natural pearls are rarer than hen's teeth!

I think I learned that the akoyas and SSP are more heavily treated and processed than Tahitians from Tahiti. Therefore I sure would like to see the term "French Polynesian Pearls" take over for the current name of Tahitian. Then the pearls would become FPP "from Tahiti" or or FPP from Indonesia etc. SPP "from Palowan"?(Spanish Polynesia?--might have to think this one through a little more)

By this defintion, I have yet to hear of any natural Tahitians produced since the 1960's when the cultured ndustry started up. I know there must be some out there from the old days, but haven't met up with any, yet.

As glatendresse cautioned us on another thread- the words "natural" and "real" are reserved for mollusks which grow pearls without human intervention- usually wild mollusks.

Natural is ok to use with the word "color" if the color is untreated. If it isn't illegal to use the term"Tahitian black", it is certainly unethical to use for any pearl but an actual Tahitian----not an akoya or freshawter.

I have a page from a paper catalog my beading sister-in-law, Lulu sent me. It shows a CFWP necklace dyed black for 5995.00 in 18" 6995.oo in 20" and called a Tathitian!
going to scan this so you can see it. be back in a few....

 

[jewel457]

Pearl Plated Beads

Pearl Plated Beads

Hi Richard,

I think an item should be sold for the value it is worth. I don't think an akoya necklace should be selling for $25,000. Nor do I think a freshwater pearl potato necklace should sell for $350.00. Of course an unual design would be worth the extra cost.

If a pearl dealer knows their pearls won't last a lifetime then yes it is dishonest to claim they will. It's always dishonest to claim your product is something it isn't. It's always dishonest to sell a product for an astronomical price when you know it is no where near worth that price.

Hi Everyone,

Wow on this thread. Hot! Perhaps, the most informative thread I have ever read on here (could be the length and experts contribution).


Question for moderators and seniors:

Since this is a forum for educating consumers, wouldn't it be beneficial to those consumers if information on the lifetime of Akoya, SS and Tahitians / PPBs are outlined in their respective sections?

Doing so would put this information at the source where consumers are more likely to search for information.

Just a thought! Thanks for considering it in advance.

 

[Ragnorak]

Seems like the Tahitian Government acted fairly quickly and responsibly to stop export of thin nacre Tahitians and stablize the market.

Too little too late really. The price of black pearls from FP declined dramatically before the government pulled it's finger out and got serious.

Japan should do the same because sooner of later CBS or some other large media outlet is going to take it in their head to investigate pearls.

Perhaps a high profile legal case such as the one that brought the emerald market crashing down will be required to wake up our friends in Japan.

It's more based on risk versus reward and what the farmer can get away with sending to market. The waters in Japan aren't as prestine as they used to be and if I was a farmer there I'd be very concerned about leaving seeded oysters in the water longer than 18 months to 2 years.

I think I learned that the akoyas and SSP are more heavily treated and processed than Tahitians from Tahiti.

Which isn't quite correct. SSPs need minimal processing, much the same as black pearls. All but the worst examples of SSPs originating in Australia require minimal processing. Polishing with wood chips is usually enough.