Silver/goldsmithing

Yes, Gail, I think so too. Ganoskin is an excellent website. You can find everything and anything on metalsmithing there.

Slraep
 
The recommendation to check out your pool chemical supply house is usually not referring to buying Muratic acid or any acid but buying a chemical, i believe, is used to adjust PH in pools. This chemical is the same as Sparex "pickling compound" we all use as an acid substitute but is much cheaper than "sparex" and doesn't have the brown scum problem that sparex has developed.
DFrey
 
I found the smallest and cheapest crockpot I could find as a pickle pot. It is great because its meant to be left on at a low temp. without worrying about over heating. If you are pressed for space simply use a glass beaker with a lid, you don't necessarily need to heat your pickling solution. The trade off is that you need to let your pieces soak a little longer in a cold solution than if it was heated.
 
Thanks for the tips about sawing Aggie, I?ll remember it for next time I try it out. I?m sure it?ll help.

About the pickle pot, wouldn?t glass or ceramic break easily? I wouldn?t want anything that acidic all over my floor... (or on me for that matter!)

I`ve had a brief look at Ganoskin and it looks good, I?ll bookmark it and go through it more carefully.

Just another question, (I wont look through Ganoskin for it because I want to know the answer pretty quickly.) I feel like I?d like to practice more on sawing, is there any other metal than silver I could get for that? Or will basemetal such as copper, aluminium and brass be too different to silver?

I?m so looking forward to next Wednesday...
 
Copper or brass sheet is a great material to practice sawing with. Both are cheaper and will give you a good feel for sawing sheet metal. It is usually what you will find students learning on in beginning fabrication classes. As a silversmith, I always liked having a little copper around for making my own silver alloys. I've also had fun soldering copper together with silver to make beads and other hollow forms.

As for your pickle pot, if you use glass or ceramic, you don't have to worry about the vessel braking from the solution itself. But being a bit clumsy at the bench myself, that's why I went with the crock pot. It doesn't knock over as easily.

Have fun in your next class!
 
I?ll just go for some copper sheets til I feel more confident then. I think it is slightly weird that we worked with silver the first time like that. We didn?t have enough time to finish our piece too, and we wont get any more time I think or we?ll miss other things we are going to learn so I really feel like I have to get tools myself quickly so I can practice between the lessons and finishing what I?m doing. I?ve been looking through this page: http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nenam/basic_goldsmith_tools_kit.htm and I?m dividing things into two categories; one is what I can get in a normal hardware store and the second one is what I have to get (or think I have to get) somewhere else. I think that most on that list seems reasonable, but what about flex shaft? I`m not sure I?ll use anything like that in the close future. I did see one on each bench at the goldsmith?s though so I guess it?s something you often use when making jewelry... (Unless you?re a beginner.)

I googled for crock pot, and I think I?ll go for one. (Wasn?t sure what the name was in Swedish.) I really hated to use fire in woodworking and metalworking in school so I always ended up trying to get out of doing it, and I always suceeded... I think it?s the same with pickle and other acidic stuff. I?ll probably treat it as a bomb until I get used to having it around and knowing it wont explode in my face or something. I don?t want to think about how I?ll be like when I have to use the torch and when I get one myself... Ugh.

Aggie and Marcus: When we were talking about file cuts, did you mean German cut or Swiss cut? Apparantly there?s two...
 
The problems with trying to use a metal pickle pot is that just about any metal but Stainless steel will disolve into the pickle both eventually eating through the metal and neutralizing the solution. If you use stainless or anything ferric it will cause an electrolytic reaction that will cause the copper that, after a surprisingly short time, gets disolved into the solution from alloys, to plate out onto the silver or gold you're pickling. It's important to locate your pickle pot towards the back of the surface you're using and see to it that it can't easily be hit or knocked over. I use a mini pickle pot I bought at a garage sale for about $3.00. Sparex is so cheap it's hardly worth running around to save a few cents on. Besides, a can of it will last a working jeweler about 10+ years. Only about a level teaspoon is needed in a pint or so of water and that should last for about 2 weeks to a month at least. Add another quarter teaspoon or so if it gets weak. What brown scum? I've been using it for over 30 years with no brown scum. Change it if it stops working or gets funky.

A hint about handling glass ware like beakers when using potentially dangerous and/or hot chemicals. Don't handle it like a glass of beer. Make all your motions one, careful, thought-out step at a time. Prepare and locate the surface you will place it before you pick it up. Look at it while you are handling it. Pick it up and move it slowly and deliberately, preferably with both hands. If very hot, carefully wrap a rag around it before you pick it up. Cyanide plating solutions and pickle don't need to be more than 160 degrees and can be handled with thin, cotton gloves at the most. Handle these things deliberately and mindfully, and do not put them down where they are vulnerable and breakage shouldn't be a problem.

Oh yes--the title of the book by Robert Von Neuman is The Design and Creation of Jewelry. Can't seem to find the one by Morton.
 
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Maybe you haven't noticed the brown scum that sparex has now because you haven't bought a new can for 12 or 15 years Marcus! Has nothing to do with use, it comes out of the can brand new with the brown scum. Doesn't seem to effect its pickling ability but it is there in my new sparex and a number of othe metalsmiths who posted to orchid.
DFrey
 
Let me vouch for Orchid. I have "lost" many evenings, fascinated by the forum archives. :cool:
 
Yeah, I better get a sturdy table as well. I guess I?ll go with something made of ceramic. I can probably ask my stepfather for help with finding a good work table, he?s sort of into practical things and like to work with wood so he might be able to help me.

I looked at the book by Robert Von Neuman, and I`ll get it. I?m also thinking about this one http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1929565054/ref=cm_cr_asin_lnk anyone have any experiences with it?
 
That's interesting about the brown scum. Yes, you're right--Neither the store I work at nor I have had to buy any sparex in several years. After a few years the steel can does start to break down into rust, though. I suggest "decanting" it into a sturdy plastic container.
 
I just came home from the silversmithing course. I filed some more on the pendant I?m making and it?s turning out quite well actually. Then I started on the bracelet, but what I spend almost 3 hours doing was just to start making the wire... I guess that?s quite important but it wasn?t really any artistic work included. Just used the mill and I?m almost done with it.

I asked him about stone settings, and this is what I thought was being strange:

"I don?t teach how to set stones, it?s because it?s really advanced. When I have to set stone I leave it to a stonesetter. You?d have to study 2-3 more years to learn all kinds of setting."

I think this is weird because in most books about jewelry making BASICS there is a section about stone setting... And really, it can?t be that hard, can it? I thought goldsmiths was setting their own stones... Not just making the settings without setting the stones! And 2-3 years?! I just can?t believe that...

I asked him if there weren?t any easy sorts of stone settings that you can make yourself and he just said "No, no."

Anyone that can give their highly appreciated opinions about this? I was really looking forward to making my own settings (I?ll learn that in the next term it seems.) but also set the stones myself... I took this course because I wanted to make my jewelry from scratch and it?d feel like cheating if I had someone else finish it by setting the stones for me.

Anyway, it was really funny today apart from the news about stone setting. He showed us briefly how to make a simple pair of earwires with a small ball on the end, and well, now I can FINALLY make my own head pins! (Well, I know how to do it, just need some practice...) Time just flew by, as usual.
 
That's really odd, I hadn't heard that it's that difficult to set stones before. I've done it myself using these special ones called Snap-It or Snap-Eze from Rio Grande that make it very simple but I'm sure that the average gold/silversmith can set stones without a specialist. The jeweler my mother goes to does it himself and I don't think he's a specialized stonesetter.
 
Although, I do not agree with your teacher, it's possible that he does not know how to set a stone. The difficulty with setting a stone depends on the type and shape of the stone. A bezel set round cabochon is basic and not difficult but still requires that you be taught and then you practice. John Cogswell recently came out with a wonderful book entitled, "Creative Stonesetting". I highly recommend it.

Gail
 
It is not unusual in the european tradition of goldsmithing to have stonesetting specialists particularly for multiple stone pieces and difficult types of jobs because of shapes of the stone or the way the piece is designed. Stone setting can be a highly skilled branch of jewellery making where the goldsmith sends the piece out to have the stones set. Some techniques take a great deal of skill and the constant practise of those skills to be able to do a perfect job.Having said that with some good beginning instruction and practise as Gail has said almost anyone can learn the basics of stone setting and do a good job.

Just stay away from the emerald, opals and other such heart breakers.

I guess you will need a different teacher to learn those skills.

DFrey
 
As with all metalsmithing and jewelry work, there are tricks to learn. Stone setting is not difficult, it is the practise to get good that can take a while. The only really difficult settings are pave and bead setting. My metalsmithing teacher in TN. was of the same opinion it was hard. Then I took some classes in it at the Revere Academy and found it is not difficult even opals and such. Alan Revere has some good books and DVD's out that teach the basics. I can't remember off the top of my head if they show how to prong set stones, but there is one that shows bezel setting.

A good way to practice is get some copper prong settings or copper sheet that is 16 guage. You can practice and practice and not worry that you are ruining silver or gold. Copper is a good metal to learn on. Biggest tool you will use is your flex shaft when you do prong settings and such other than bezel.

2 to 3 years is insane. Learn in a week the basics, and practice, practice, practice.
 
Wow, what a relief. Thanks everyone for reassuring me. Is it possibly to learn yourself just from books and maybe DVDs? Just some easy ones (at least I think they?re easy...) like prong and bezel.

How do you use the flex shaft when setting stones?

I think it?s weird that he said it?s really hard and that he never set his own stones, just do the settings. Dfrey is probably right about it, though. Here in Sweden at least people often tend to think that there?s not much they can do themselves and that they need specialist for everything... But still, I?d have thought that it?s the actual making of the settings that?s the hard part, not just putting the stones in the already made settings?

I don?t want to talk any more about this with my teacher. I think I might make him grumpy or in the worst case hurt his feelings... I?ll just have to learn it somewhere else.
 
One of the DVD's of Alan's is about making a prong setting. For simple prong settings just buy the already made findings. Much easier. It is when you get odd shaped stones and larger ones that you will end up making your own. The flex shaft is used with specialized burs. The best most common ones are the setting burs. You will use one that is labeled the same size as the stone you want to set. The finding will be actually just a bit larger than the bur. This is so when you hold it straight down onto the setting it will shave just a small bit of the inside of the prongs off. Then when you seat the stone it will sit in a cradle made by the bur. The top of the prongs then are pushed/folded over the stone. Once you've done it, it will seem so simple of a concept. From there you cn branch out and learn how to namage odd sizes and larger stones that there are no burs for.

For pave, and bead setting you will use gravers customized for setting.

A slick trick for bezel setting is to make the actual bezel just a hair too small. Then take a small steel rod and slowly roll the inside of the bezel on a steel block to slowly enlarge it. You want a nice fit but not one that is loose. Usually when you make your first bezels you either make it too small, or too large. Too small is best you can fix that easily with this method. Too large you can cut it down, but it is a PIA. Some will say to just use a hammer and your ring mandrel to enlarge the bezel, but it tends to warp the metal in a cone shape too easily and then it is too large. Just slowly roll it with a steel rod of uniforn size.
 
Aggie:

I might end up using ready made settings but I feel I really want to learn how to make it at least, I don?t like to "cheat" when making my jewelry, I want to make as much as I can from scratch.

It seems that I really have to get a flex shaft sometime... Maybe not now but it seems like such a handy tool. You can polish with it too and my teacher showed us how to drill using it.

Ugh. Now when I heard about how to set stones using the flex shaft it just seems so hard to set stones that don?t have any burs. How do you shave off the prongs without a bur? Do you use a saw?

My teacher actually showed us how to make a setting, I?m not sure what it?s called but it looked kinda like this:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn...sNCq88OI/AAAAAAAACrY/uWxT0M-gz54/DSCN5658.JPG

(I just found it on google when searching.)

He took a really thick square wire piece and just sawed out the setting... Any opinions on this method? (If anyone understands what I mean with the description.)

Is it a good idea to bezel set a pearl?

Oh yeah. I?m planning to get a torch soon, and I?ll probably start with one of those cheap butane torches. What?s the difference between the butane ones and the expensive ones with big tubes of gas attached to them? My teacher had a really weird torch I?ve never seen before, he kinda used a mouth piece and blowed into it to control the flame.

Thanks for the help.
 
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