The Silk Challenge

[knotty panda]

I am like so up for a challenge! But I'll tell you what, I have a bracelet, Mother's day special pearls, AA quality, that I knotted. I wear them 5-7 days a week, sleep in them and sometimes they take a shower and get put into dishwater. I never remove my bracelet when washing my hands throughout the day and water splashes on it.

If silk is properly worked before it's knotted, it doesn't stretch after it's initial wearing. And to prove my point, I'll wear my bracelet for 30 days, won't take it off except at times that I want to protect the pearls themselves like cleaning or in the garden and I'll post before and after pics and measurements. Bracelets get much more abuse than necklaces.

Silk knots are the smallest. Silk compresses when being threaded through the end pearls. No reaming necessary. Natural fibers are better for the environment. Silk doesn't cut into your hands when you're knotting.

Don't our online retail sponsors use the best? They all proudly advertise silk. Every one without exception.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi knotty
I too, am wearing a bracelet 24/7 that gets the same treatment yours does. I don't worry about the silk, because I used PowerPro beading thread. How about we both take "before" phots and then "after" photos? In what, one month? six months?

If silk doesn't stretch when properly prepared, then why do all the care of pearl paragraphs tell you not to let the silk stretch? You are saying that most of those pros out there do not know how to prepare silk?

Maybe I would have a higher opinion of silk for beading if someone had told me I don't know how to prepare silk.......I'm thinking of the 16mm "lumps of coal" necklace. I used beeswax. I stretched the silk wet. (It was Gudebrod spool silk from Bella Findings). I strung the necklace which was quite heavy and 24" long. It started stretching in the first 10 minutes I wore it! I pouted over here immediately and got told to stretch the silk wet.........

 

[Caitlin]

Here is my picture. The pearls 10mm lavenders are from Icomepack (is that right?) at eBay. Inexpensive, yet pretty enough to wear 24/7 for 30 days to 6 months or so.

 

[barbie biggs]

Dear Caitlin:
Nice knots!
barbie
P.S. The pearls are great too.

 

[silverseajewelry]

I'll be very interested in the results. I do not stretch my silk wet. Doesn't this weaken the thread and cause them to unwind a bit? (Especially gudebrod, which is nice, but has a tendency to be weaker than griffin and the three strands are wound less tightly it seems.)

I've always thought that stretching of silk after wearing is something we have to live with, and one of the reason why we restring yearly.

I could learn something valuable here!

 

[Caitlin]

Hi Knotty
You started the subject in another thread and I thought it would do well over here. I like to clean up these extraneous posts as well.

 

[Caitlin]

Your challenge seems to have been based on your opinion that if you prepared silk properly-with beeswax- that your bracelet would stand up to showers and hand washing for (at least) 30 days without stretching. Not very long, but it will be getting wet as you said and if anyone can make silk stay intact when wet, it would be you.

I thought I would meet your silk challenge with my thread of choice and raise you one. I expect my man made material and its stretch factor to last far longer than 30 days of continuous wear without stretching.

Since I whipped up a bracelet especially for this challenge, I will wear it when sweating, gardening, bathing and cleaning house. Maybe I will run it through the dishwasher once.

I am honestly interested in how various threading materials stand up to daily wear, rather than just accepting silk blindly. At the end of six months, after comparing the amount of stretch with the above photo, I will take apart the bracelet and look at the thread and the holes, so see how much wear and tear the pearls and the thread took. I will be observing, not only stretch, but how dirty it gets -actually how easily it soaks up sweat and dirt compared to silk- and if my thread of choice abrades the holes.

Silk knots are the smallest. Silk compresses when being threaded through the end pearls. No reaming necessary. Natural fibers are better for the environment. Silk doesn't cut into your hands when you're knotting. Don't our online retail sponsors use the best? They all proudly advertise silk. Every one without exception.

I am sorry knotty, but I find the above arguments flawed and without basis:
Silk knots are smallest compared to what? Other threads do not compress as much as silk? What about a braided thread that is hollow in the middle? Have you actually done comparisons? Or do you have some citations?

Reaming is only necessary if your thread is too big to go through a pearl twice. And silk users who have to ream (which should be about everyone on the forum who has to ream) should know that. After several broken reamers, I quit using them except for taking sharp edges off od cut gemstone beeads-not to ream them.

Why are natural fibers better for the environment? Silk uses dyes that aren't so great for the environment. Only undyed/unbleached fibers are better for the environment. Undyed silk is minus its one most popular quality, the ability to take brilliant dyes.

I know of no beading thread that CUTS into your hands when knotting. My thread of choice is rougher than silk when knotting, but does not actually cut. Another brand of my thread choice is as soft as silk and needs some waxing to keep it from tangling.

And I think we already dealt with the fact that the bigtime pearl sellers who string with silk do not wax it- even though it is cost effective to do so- therefore it is NOT properly prepared to stand up to the vicissitudes waxed silk can endure.

I am not positive my thread of choice will hold up better, but how will we know for sure without testing? Therefore, I too, am up for this challenge.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Caitlin,

I've been following the thread discussions with interest as I have only begun stringing with threads this past year (always used beading wire before.)

May I make a suggestion? I think the experiment's results would be more telling if just one person (you?) made two bracelets, with two different types of thread, wore them side by side on the same arm, and gave both the same treatment (sleeping, shower, etc.) That is the only way to really control the variables. Maybe bracelets made of smaller beads, so that two bracelets worn side by side wouldn't be fashion overkill!

If two different people participate, there are just too many variables.

 

[Hanaleimom]

Caitlin,

I've been following the thread discussions with interest as I have only begun stringing with threads this past year (always used beading wire before.)

May I make a suggestion? I think the experiment's results would be more telling if just one person (you?) made two bracelets, with two different types of thread, wore them side by side on the same arm, and gave both the same treatment (sleeping, shower, etc.) That is the only way to really control the variables. Maybe bracelets made of smaller beads, so that two bracelets worn side by side wouldn't be fashion overkill!

If two different people participate, there are just too many variables.

Caitlin and Pearldreams,
What great idea. I am eager to see the results. Thank you.

 

[Caitlin]

Hi
The challenge actually is that Knotty knows how to prepare silk so it doesn't stretch in a bracelet worn day in and day out. I use beeswax on silk too, but it has been my experience that my prepared silk still stretches.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I was too slow to post and Caitlin posted first, so my post was then meaningless. So I'm editing:

Hi
The challenge actually is that Knotty knows how to prepare silk so it doesn't stretch in a bracelet worn day in and day out. I use beeswax on silk too, but it has been my experience that my prepared silk still stretches.

If you wish to reduce the variables (like knotting technique, climate, individual activities that cause stress on bracelet etc.) then maybe each of you could prepare two threads your own way, and mail one prepared thread to the other to string a bracelet with. So you would each have one bracelet made with your own prepared thread and one made with the other's thread.

This is getting to sound rather complicated, but it would actually give you more reliable results as it would reduce the variables.

 

[Caitlin]

That is a great idea, but I am willing to go with anecdotal evidence and a couple of photos.

Knotty uses special imported siilk which is not well known, or easy to get--yet.

I have never searched for silk beyond Gudebrod silk spools from Bella Findings. I think they are not monfiliment silk. Monofilment silk is considerably more stretchable than short fiber silk, however.

Anyone want to do one in nylon beading thread? Easy to find on most bead websites and local bead stores.

We have had 2 reports on detulon, both report kinking right when the knot is pulled tight. I am willing to send my spool of detulon (from the pearl emporium) to someone who likes it.

How would a wire-strung bracelet hold up under (more or less) the same conditons?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I always remove my jewelry before showering and sleeping, and have never worn a single wire strung piece for so long, so I don't know how it would hold up! Also, I don't knot my wire (though theoretically one could.) That could easily affect durability.

 

[knotty panda]

Wow! This is really taking on a life of its own!

Caitlin, I believe is right, my point was that silk doesn't stretch if properly prepared. Does fishing line? No. But I can't get past the thought of why knot fishing line at all? Isn't the point of that to make it look like silk? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Ok, its used to keep heavy pieces from stretching. But how many PGers purchase strands with matching bracelets from our vendors who do use silk and hook them together to form ropes? I haven't heard anyone saying, "gee, I'll never do THAT again! It stretched like crazy!"

There's lots of stringing materials that don't stretch, like Caitlin said.

But since we are NCNs, the question is, what is best for the pearls? What causes the least abrasion? What doesn't bleed on them to discolor them? What enhances the pearls to the wearer in terms of fit and drape?

That's as far as my thinking takes me at the moment. I'll keep reading to see what all y'all come up with.

Oh, I get my silk from YLI, buttonhole twist, from exotic South Carolina. Its very well-known if you are a seamstress or tailor. They just have a very screwy purchasing set up which makes the colors hard to get sometimes. White and black are always readily available.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

...Oh, I get my silk from YLI, buttonhole twist, from exotic South Carolina. Its very well-known if you are a seamtress or tailor. They just have a very screwy purchasing set up which makes the colors hard to get sometimes. White and black are always readily available.

How did you happen to settle on their silk, may I ask? What makes one type or brand of silk more desirable than another?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Never mind, I just read their statement about their silk:

YLI offers more colors, more sizes and more varieties of silk ribbon and accessories than anyone in the world. YLI Silk Ribbon is pure 100% filament silk, not the less expensive spun silk. There is a big difference. Stitchers worldwide tell us that not only can they see a difference, but our ribbon has a feel and stitchability that imitations cannot match. YLI Silk Ribbon is colorfast and can be dry-cleaned and hand washed. Our unique plastic reel assures no creased ribbon and provides convenient storage during a project or to save unused ribbon for future use.
http://www.ylicorp.com/ (and selecting the silk page from the sidebar)

Presumably those qualities are the reasons for your preference of their product.

 

[knotty panda]

Presumably those qualities are the reasons for your preference of their product.

LOL, I wish I could say I tested several brands and in my expert opinion ... LOL. Not at all. Griffin sucks. I bought one card of Gudebrod and hated that too. I knew about YLI because I love silk ribbon embroidery so I looked on the website. It worked for the way I knot. Third time's the charm

Go to the needlework link on the left of website, that will give you a list of threads. Click on silk thread. Scroll all the way down. The 1000 Denier is the buttonhole twist thread I use for knotting. BTW, don't buy the metallic -- one failed design project. Looked good -- in my head, but that's it.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Great color selection there! Could you summarize for us again how you prep the silk? I know I've seen a post about this somewhere but I don't know where!

Oh, and all I've ever done is iron the silk to get the creases out of it-- I've only used the kind on the card with the needle attached. I have no idea if ironing it (low temp) is good or bad but it made it easier to work with.

 

[knotty panda]

I think ironing is a wonderful idea! If I can find my ironing board, one day, I'm gonna try it. Steam, pressure, and PULL! With the beeswax, I put the front end of the thread on the beeswax, press down with my thumb nail, grab with thread with my chain nose, and pull. After it makes a groove in the beeswax, which doesn't take but a second, I keep my thumb on it and keep pulling. I work it hard about 3 times because I'm stretching it. I probably wax it too much.

 

[jerin]

Hi everyone,

I do my necklaces with both silk, Detolon and Power Pro. I have never done anything with my silk before stringing but it doesn?t matter because I just will restring a necklace if it is needed. I am not wearing a single strand more than 1 week at the same time as I want to wear my other pearls as well for humidity reasons...and the different look, of course.

Still I think Pearl-Dreams suggestion was the best, two bracelets, strung by the same person and worn under the same conditions at a certain time has to be the most scientific way to get a result that is correct.

Anyway, my Detolon knots are very tiny, I strung all my Exotics with it.

And so far every one of silk-strung necklaces looks fine and has not stretched - but I am particular not to hang them but put them on something that can give support to the pearls...