Is this a 12 strand pre pearl culture era necklace?

[Xpearlnoob1]

Hello, I've been considering these pearls that were left to me by a family member to be cultured fresh water rice pearls for 20 years. I've always wondered why they put big 18k gold findings on a necklace of relatively 'common' pearls.

Today I started asking chatgpt what they were and I was surprised at the possibility that they may not be common pearls. My first question is without fancy xray tools can I determine with 100% certainty that these are natural?

So far here's the evidence:
-The nacre is very beautiful deep and even
-the pearls vary in size going from 3-4mm long all
the way to 6-7 mm long in fringe cases.
-some of the pearls are very oddly shaped, there is really no uniform shape to the pearls on the strand other than they tend to be wider than they are thick.
-The nacre is undisturbed when transitioning from outside of the pearl to inside, it's a nice smooth transition.
-they fluoresce under UV light
-old 18k gold findings.

Do you think they are old natural (not cultured) freshwater pearls? If so, I'm not going to be wearing them because they don't go well with my beard, so is this necklace something that could be too valuable to be left around the house?

Thank you for reading this, and looking at my pearls.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Honestly, they really look like old freshwater "rice krispie" pearls from the 1970s. Gold cost less then so an 18K clasp is not such a stretch.
My grandmother had earrings that were 18K but the "aquamarines", when tested, were glass!
I assume you meant 6.7mm, not 67mm.

See this thrread:

P

Thread 'Would those be keshi pearls?'

Jan 22, 2024

The clasp says 14k gold, but I am fairly new to the pearl industry, would those be called keshi pearls? Thank you in advance!

• pearl2020
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Pearls

• 

The only way to find out if they are natural pearls is to send them to GIA and pay to have them tested, but I can't recommend that for these.

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

Honestly, they really look like old freshwater "rice krispie" pearls from the 1970s. Gold cost less then so an 18K clasp is not such a stretch.
My grandmother had earrings that were 18K but the "aquamarines", when tested, were glass!
I assume you meant 6.7mm, not 67mm.

See this thrread:

P

Thread 'Would those be keshi pearls?'

Jan 22, 2024

The clasp says 14k gold, but I am fairly new to the pearl industry, would those be called keshi pearls? Thank you in advance!

• pearl2020
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Pearls

• 

The only way to find out if they are natural pearls is to send them to GIA and pay to have them tested, but I can't recommend that for these.

They do look like rice crispies! Haha.

thanks for the response! I see they look very similar to the pearls in the keshi pearl photo response. Thank you.

One last question: Are there any fringe cases where natural pearls where -when stringed- might get sorted by size and color to the point of appearing like cultured rice crispy pearls? I ask because the necklace came in a collection of Sarawak heirloom beads (Dayak tribe, North Kalimantan Borneo) and There was a 12 strand glass bead necklace of restrung 19th century dowry/wealth beads that had the same exact findings, each had two old male ends of 18k gold box clasps. The Sarawak heirloom provinance wound up helping me determine for sure they were murano glass. I figured something like that could happen with the pearls, I just don't know enough to be sure. Thank you very much! And if you ever need assistance with identifying or dating old glass beads I'd be happy to help.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

That's really interesting, but I don't know of any cases like what you mentioned. I suppose anything is possible, but it seems the likelihood is that they are the very common rice krispies.
But let's see if @Lagoon Island Pearls has any insights to offer. He's an expert on natural pearls. Hopefully he will notice I tagged him.

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

That's really interesting, but I don't know of any cases like what you mentioned. I suppose anything is possible, but it seems the likelihood is that they are the very common rice krispies.
But let's see if @Lagoon Island Pearls has any insights to offer. He's an expert on natural pearls. Hopefully he will notice I tagged him.

Awesome thank you. I had something come to mind I'd like to ask you, I've learned that there are baroque shaped pearls and another being coin shaped. The baroque shape has sphericity, whereas the coin shape are more circular. My question is, is there an intermediate? I have these sort of globby looking almost tear shaped but flat like natural coin pearls but they're not totally coin shaped, but they have coin pearl thickness.

 

[ennui]

I don't believe coin pearls are natural. They are a type of cultured freshwater pearl -- a flat disk-shaped nucleus is inserted into the mollusk.
I suppose an intermediate is up to the pearl cultivator. Round nucleus vs flat disk? You can find all sorts of cultivated shapes, crosses, squares, etc.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

The coin pearls and other shapes (stars, crosses etc.) are second harvest cultured freshwater pearls (not natural).
The freshwater mollusk used is a cross between the Biwa mussel (Hyriopsis schlegelli) and the triangle sail mussel (Hyriopsis cumingii).

The first time it's cultured, the mussel is given just a donor tissue implant into the mantle tissue (many at one time, actually; the shell is large), which produces the common freshwater pearls that we have all seen many of, usually more or less baroque. (There are high quality near-rounds too, of course; many of us own such strands.)

After this first harvest, the mussel may now have beads inserted into the existing pearl sac-- coin shaped, stars, crosses etc. Or the mussel may be returned to the water with no bead nucleus. The pearl sac lays down more nacre. At the second harvest, the resulting pearl has the shape of the bead that was inserted, or if there was no bead inserted, the pearls may be very irregular "keshi" shapes. I have some of these; they are very lustrous.

The coin pearls in your photo were left in the water long enough for the nacre to become more irregular. The longer a mollusk is in the water, the greater the chance that a more baroque shape will result.

If a round bead is then implanted into the now-enlarged pearl sac, and the mussel returned to the water, the result of the third harvest is a flameball pearl, so called because the tail looks like that of a comet. These are large and the tail is highly iridescent.

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

The coin pearls and other shapes (stars, crosses etc.) are second harvest cultured freshwater pearls (not natural).
The freshwater mollusk used is a cross between the Biwa mussel (Hyriopsis schlegelli) and the triangle sail mussel (Hyriopsis cumingii).

The first time it's cultured, the mussel is given just a donor tissue implant into the mantle tissue (many at one time, actually; the shell is large), which produces the common freshwater pearls that we have all seen many of, usually more or less baroque. (There are high quality near-rounds too, of course; many of us own such strands.)

After this first harvest, the mussel may now have beads inserted into the existing pearl sac-- coin shaped, stars, crosses etc. Or the mussel may be returned to the water with no bead nucleus. The pearl sac lays down more nacre. At the second harvest, the resulting pearl has the shape of the bead that was inserted, or if there was no bead inserted, the pearls may be very irregular "keshi" shapes. I have some of these; they are very lustrous.

The coin pearls in your photo were left in the water long enough for the nacre to become more irregular. The longer a mollusk is in the water, the greater the chance that a more baroque shape will result.

If a round bead is then implanted into the now-enlarged pearl sac, and the mussel returned to the water, the result of the third harvest is a flameball pearl, so called because the tail looks like that of a comet. These are large and the tail is highly iridescent.

That is all very interesting and insightful.

Makes me wonder how well they've recorded the probability of certain or rare keshi shapes being produced. It sounds like cultivating pearls might be a fun job with a lot of room for experimentation and design.

The other interesting thing is that I always thought the higher luster was mostly a result of chance, but it's more complicated than I thought and now I see part of what sets the high cost is time in the water.

Are you in the pearl business yourself?

i

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

Honestly, they really look like old freshwater "rice krispie" pearls from the 1970s. Gold cost less then so an 18K clasp is not such a stretch.
My grandmother had earrings that were 18K but the "aquamarines", when tested, were glass!
I assume you meant 6.7mm, not 67mm.

See this thrread:

P

Thread 'Would those be keshi pearls?'

Jan 22, 2024

The clasp says 14k gold, but I am fairly new to the pearl industry, would those be called keshi pearls? Thank you in advance!

• pearl2020
• Replies: 6
• Forum: Pearls

• 

The only way to find out if they are natural pearls is to send them to GIA and pay to have them tested, but I can't recommend that for these.

And about the aquamarine earrings, funny thing is sort of a coincidence I had. After my mom passed I was shocked at the amount of her 'fine' jewelry collection was actually not all that fine.

A lot of the beautiful cabochons turned out to be glass, but when I started offering itens for sale I noticed they were selling very quickly -not a good sign- I paused the sales until I could figure out what was going on, but long story short it turned out my Mother had a taste for extremely rare antique (some ancient) very expensive nearly irreplaceable glass beads. To make matters worse she even had a taste for rare antique imitation materials.

Anyway, gotta be careful with that glass haha, because form, color, and age can make glass more expensive that the gemstone it's imitating.

Old bead pics for fun:

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I have never been in the jewelry business-- I've just always loved pearls!

So interesting about your mom's antique glass beads! Glass is a wonderful material and can be really beautiful.

I had several "aquamarine" rings from my grandmother and mother that turned out to be synthetic spinel. They had no idea.

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

I have never been in the jewelry business-- I've just always loved pearls!

So interesting about your mom's antique glass beads! Glass is a wonderful material and can be really beautiful.

I had several "aquamarine" rings from my grandmother and mother that turned out to be synthetic spinel. They had no idea.

The jewelry retail biz seems like it's 80% crooks these days. I lost count of how many resellers tried to convince me I had nothing, when in fact I had items along the lines of Miriam Haskell book piece jewelry. I've learned so much about jewelry since she passed that now I got the bug, and I'm starting to collect items myself. And now I am stepping into the pearl ring. My goodness pearls are complicated haha,

So I think I just dodged a bullet. I was 99% sure these irridescent pearls are 10mm Tahitian Keshi pearls until I found the 'freirich' makers mark on the clasp. A quick search revealed Freirich only used faux pearls, so my certainty about the pearls was thrown out the window. BUT these pearls are absolutely not glass, or plastic, or any sort of imitation, I've done every test. Turns out, I think my mother had this bib piece made and used the Freirich clasp because she liked it. I think 9 out of 10 people would have wound up selling this necklace for $200 -like the rest of the vintage Freirich faux pearl bibs that have been on the market.

Thank you for grabbing my interest, Your summary was insightful and interesting and I sincerely thank you for helping me understand some of the basics of pearls. Like I said before if you ever need help with old glass or opals just holler and I'll be happy to help. Cheers

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Since you like pearls, consider taking the CPAA's "Pearls As One" course. It's free with a code I will message you, and you will learn a great deal about pearls!

CPAA Pearls As One course

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

I don't believe coin pearls are natural. They are a type of cultured freshwater pearl -- a flat disk-shaped nucleus is inserted into the mollusk.
I suppose an intermediate is up to the pearl cultivator. Round nucleus vs flat disk? You can find all sorts of cultivated shapes, crosses, squares, etc.

Sorry I meant natural as in not being composed mainly of glass or plastic. I'm learning as I go and I see now that natural implies non cultured, or at least first harvest. First harvest is still natural right?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Some terms to clarify:

Real pearls can be natural or cultured.

Natural pearls = wild pearls, formed in nature without any intervention from humans. These are rare and very valuable.
Cultured pearls = farmed pearls, which come about through human intervention, but they are still formed by living mollusks in the water (saltwater or fresh water).
The pearl market today is a cultured pearl market, and has been for about the past century.

Imitation pearls are made in factories. They are glass or plastic beads usually (sometimes shell) and are coated with a shellac type material made from extracts from fish scales.

 

[Xpearlnoob1]

Some terms to clarify:

Real pearls can be natural or cultured.

Natural pearls = wild pearls, formed in nature without any intervention from humans. These are rare and very valuable.
Cultured pearls = farmed pearls, which come about through human intervention, but they are still formed by living mollusks in the water (saltwater or fresh water).
The pearl market today is a cultured pearl market, and has been for about the past century.

Imitation pearls are made in factories. They are glass or plastic beads usually (sometimes shell) and are coated with a shellac type material made from extracts from fish scales.

Thanks for the clarification. Wow yeah natural pearls must be super rare in that case.

So, it's a crime to sell antiques without provenance, is it illegal to sell pearls marketed as natural without documented proof thereof?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Not illegal, no, but knowledgeable buyers will want a GIA certificate (or another reputable lab that can certify pearls) before paying natural pearl prices. Especially since many sellers do not understand what "natural" refers to when it comes to pearls.

Have a look at what some natural pearls cost:

Kari Pearls: Natural Pearls - A Trusted Resource

A trusted source for natural pearls, natural pearl jewelry and all things related...jewelry, information, images, pearl button jewelry, ecards, and videos.

www.karipearls.com