Silver/goldsmithing

[Mervione]

Too lazy to post updates to how the course went last week.

I bought a small, cheapo torch the other day, and I`ve decided to order some tools to my boyfriends address in England from a shop called cooksongold.com Anyone have any experience with that site?

I`ve also found an anvil on eBay, it seems good. Just need a wood stump for it now. Going to bring it home with me on the plane, in the checked in baggage. Better tell them it?s not a bomb so they know. It shoulnd?t be a problem, should it? I`ll be under the weight limits.

Main reason I`m posting is that I?m really wondering about one thing. I?ve look through my books a little and online as well, and when looking in the sections about how to polish, you need machines... I really can?t afford a thumbler/a wheelthingy or a flex shaft right now, so I`m wondering if you can polish by hand only? I?ve figured you use some emery paper after filing but what about after? I know you use tripoli, mustlin etc but I can only find for machines.

 

[Nerida]

Mervione, thanks for keeping us updated on the class.
Heidi - thanks for the very beautiful interlude there - what elegant and minimalist style - just lovely.

 

[pattye]

Hi Mervione,

Good to hear you are persisting with the class, look forward to hearing more details when you can post. One can do a lot with the inexpensive little kitchen torch!

 

[dkan 168]

I bought a small, cheapo torch the other day, and I`ve decided to order some tools to my boyfriends address in England from a shop called cooksongold.com Anyone have any experience with that site?

Cookson Gold is the company behind Exchange Findings, which has a shop in Hattan Garden in London. It sells mainly to trades, however, it is open to the public too. There's where I bought my Sterling wires, chains, and other findings. Also bought some tools from them, like pliers and cutters. Good company

I did not buy gold wires and findings from them this time round, as they have very limited amount of items in WG.

I also bought a jewellery making book from them which is very informative. It includes soldering, polishing, stone setting etc... Unfortunately, I can't find it at the mo, bum!

DK

 

[Mervione]

Hi everyone.

Decided it?s time to catch up so here goes: Two weeks ago when I went to the course I picked up my bracelet that had been in the thumbler. Wow! It?s the best thing I`ve done so far! The soldering on it looks almost like it?s not there, it?s all smooth and nice. And so shiny... Anyway. I decided to do a ring. Memorize what he said for later:

"What kind of ring? Oh, that one? No problem!"

It was a ring I saw in a silversmithing book I borrowed at the library. You saw out the ringshank from a silversheet that is quite thick, think it was 1,5 mm, and then you bend it and the thing with this ring is, it looks a bit like a puzzle. The ring shank is a bit like a puzzle even when it?s not finished, you have to fit the pieces of the shanks together because they are sawn in a certain way. So anyway, I sawed it out and filed it. Time to go home.

So yeah. I went there again yesterday to continue with the ring.

"So how am I supposed to bend this thing?"

"Oh... That will be hard, really hard."

I thought OK, he should be able to help me. He told me to bend the ends of the shanks together with a plier and I did so. Went back to him and he sighed and told me to bend it around a steel pipe (not a ring mandrel) with a plier designed for that purpose. I did so, but couldn?t bend it all way around like with a normal ring. Went back.

Remember what he said last time?

I was starting to get really angry with me and the ring. "What is this stupid, damn ring you?re doing?!"

He, the goldsmith master couldn?t help me with a ring I found in a beginners silversmith book.

We managed together to fit the puzzle ring together and I made it neat and nice but he thought it looked sloped. "Saw it apart and try to fit it better using the two pieces and then solder it together again." I sawed it apart and it ended up looking the same as before, just with an ugly part as a result from the soldering, have to sort that out later.

I?m sorry but I can?t help it, my teacher is so weird and he?s mean as well. Ugh. He shoulnd?t have got mad at me because he said I could make the ring last time and that he could help me, and I really begin to question him if he can?t help me better with a ring like this, that I found in a beginners book. I`ll just have to put up with it and go the remaining 4 lessons and then I wont return the next term, will find another teacher.

Oh, and I putted the flux brush on fire. Sigh.

 

[Mervione]

By the way Dkan, thanks for the information about cooksongold, putted my mind on ease! Going to order from them.

 

[dkan 168]

By the way Dkan, thanks for the information about cooksongold, putted my mind on ease! Going to order from them.

You are welcome

Go and visit their trade counter if you can when you are in London next - I find them very helpful

DK

 

[J Marcus]

Mervione--We have an old saying over here. It goes: Those who can't do, teach. ...and they often get surly and nasty to cover up their inadequacy!

 

[mausketeer]

I have read this thread with interest as I have taken two (very different) jewellers courses over the last couple of years, decided I had to add my two cents:

My first course was a night school class (3 hours once a week for twelve weeks) at a local high school here in Vancouver with a "professional" jeweller (she had a shop, a website and tons of recommendations. She'd won some awards for jewellery design. She'd been teaching for years and has a school in Mexico where people come and pay BIG BUCKS to be taught by her one on one) I made two rings and a pendant in a 12 week class and was very proud of myself afterwards for how great I (thought I) did. I wore that ring proudly until........

I took my SECOND course at the North Bennet Street School in Boston, Massachusetts. It is the oldest trade school in the US and is VERY highly regarded (they have classes for violin making for crying out loud! Where else can you learn a craft like THAT?). I took a two week, full-time summer course (8:00 AM to 4:00 PM, Monday to Friday for two weeks) Jewelery basics 1 and 2. Turns out almost EVERYTHING I learned in the first class was wrong! From how to bend the metal to how to tell that the flame was the right temperature to solder to how to hold your tools! Wrong, wrong, WRONG. In my first class when we soldered our joints for the rings, there were HUGE gaps between the ends and when I asked the teacher if that was okay, she said "Oh gosh - don't worry about that - the solder will fill it". In my second course, we weren't allowed to have any gaps. None. I had to recut my ring so many times I actually went down about two sizes! lol We were held to a VERY high standard of quality but I have to say, I learned SO much. We only completed about 3 items in two weeks because we were expected to do them properly (properly being "like a bench jeweler") My fingers were numb for weeks afterwards (literally I couldn't feel the tips of my fingers) I am still playing with the idea of taking their full time bench jewelers course but in 2006 it was about $20,000 a year (two year course) and it'll probably be more now so....... that's on hold.......

Anyways, I guess my point is - like everything, quality varies. My first teacher at the night school was "good enough" to make her own jewelery and sell it and the people that bought it didn't know that it wasn't made very well (truly, the joints I saw her solder were TERRIBLE I now know. At the time, that's just what I thought they were supposed to look like) The ring I made in my second course is SO simple that people don't even know how well it's made (my teacher couldn't find the seam with her loupe - that made my day!) Most people couldn't tell the difference in quality between the two rings, but I KNOW.......

 

[Mervione]

Mausketeer:

I don't believe there are any rights and wrongs for most things, as long as the final result looks nice. Soldering is the exception for that, though, like you said but otherwise I think it's fine to think outside the box and do things your way. At least that's how I usually do it.

Last course day went well. I asked if he could teach me how to engrave by hand.

"It takes 5 years to become an engraver."

No comment.

I just made a simple spider instead. It was really easy and funny. Only 3 times left now.

I really really need to know how to polish by hand. Anyone have any tips, or do you really need machines for soldering?

 

[mausketeer]

I think I - as others - will be staying off this thread at this point (for reasons pointed out by others earlier) but I need to comment about one more thing:

Mausketeer:

I don't believe there are any rights and wrongs for most things, as long as the final result looks nice. Soldering is the exception for that, though, like you said but otherwise I think it's fine to think outside the box and do things your way. At least that's how I usually do it.

Well, other than the soldering being wrong, and the way she had us form the metal for our rings (which I was told by my second teacher would "torque" and that was why we didn't do it that way - it made the joint too unstable) my first teacher had me using my files incorrectly and in fact, if I continued to use them the way she taught me (or didn't teach me I should say), I would have ruined them in no time (or at the very least they would have been totally gummed up and dulled and thereby unusable unless cleaned and sharpened by someone who knew how to do so which of course, I didn't). I'd prefer to have been taught the CORRECT way of using them from the beginning so that that wasn't something that might have happened. Especially considering how much money I invested in good quality tools.

Basing "doing it right or wrong" simply on how the finished product looks? (it it looks "good" then it's done "right"?) You know, sometimes people who teach you things have a reason for doing them a certain way that you do not have the knowledge or experience to understand. Keep that in mind......

Seacrest out.......

 

[pearlescence]

The reason that there is a right way and a wrong way to do most things is that many people have tried all sorts of ways to do things and found that some ways work - so become the right ways - and some don't.
Techniques of gold and silversmithing have been honed for more than three thousand years so mostly the right ways are known.

 

[Mervione]

It was just an opinion, no need to get upset/defensive.

As for the files, of course they'll get clogged if you don't clean them regurarily. I'm curious about what "the right way" is like...?

And as for things that look good, they tend to be well made if they look good, and that was why I said that I (still) think that as long as the final result looks good, it doesn't matter how it was made.

 

[pearlescence]

I am not upset and I am certainly not defensive

 

[mausketeer]

As for the files, of course they'll get clogged if you don't clean them regurarily. I'm curious about what "the right way" is like...?.

It was stressed to me by my teachers at the trade school that files are to be used on the "push" only, and not on the "pull" (ie: don't saw back and forth with them like a hand saw, which is how we all did it in my night school class and was a very hard habit to break when I took the trade school course).

And as for things that look good, they tend to be well made if they look good, and that was why I said that I (still) think that as long as the final result looks good, it doesn't matter how it was made.

I think I understand the point you are making (I think you're talking about the difference between "traditional" ways of doing things versus trying your own style of doing it, am I right? That sometimes people get too caught up in "doing it right" when if they did it another way, it would have the same result) However, I agree with Wendy, that there ARE "correct" and "incorrect" ways of doing things (that may not affect the look of the final product), and that perhaps there are REASONS behind doing them that way (that a beginner probably doesn't know enough about to understand). As she said, jewelery making and metalsmithing goes back thousands of years, you've got to think that the people who learn this art (properly - like the teachers in my 2nd course) know what they're doing and are passing along this knowledge for reasons other than "that's just the way it's done and you're going to listen to me because I'm the teacher", period. I'm not just talking about techniques used in fabrication, I'm talking about ALL of the techniques used. How to deal with hot metal when other people are around (make sure they know that you are behind them when carrying a hot piece), how to deal with the torches and the gas (make sure you have your flint ready BEFORE you turn the gas on) and the drill presses (do not wear loose clothing or dangling jewelry when you use it) and the caustic liquids used (drop things into the pickle AWAY from you so it doesn't splash up) etc. etc. These things don't directly affect the finished piece but if you do something "WRONG" with them, you or someone else could get seriously hurt. That's the thing I am trying to stress here. Perhaps there is a REASON for doing things a certain way that is not readily apparant to you and you just have to trust that the person with the experience might know what they're doing even if it doesn't make sense to you? You know, maybe your teacher isn't encouraging you to persue the more advanced techniques for a reason? Ever heard the phrase "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing"?

 

[Mervione]

Yeah, OK,

The reason he wont teach me advanced things such as the bezel setting that's described in detail in all my four basic goldsmith books is that he don't know how to do it himself.

 

[dkan 168]

Yeah, OK,

The reason he wont teach me advanced things such as the bezel setting that's described in detail in all my four basic goldsmith books is that he don't know how to do it himself.

Stone setting is an art, and a badly made bezel setting can ruin a stone or a piece.

I'd rather have a teacher who is excellent in one thing, than being mediocre in many things

What's that Chinese saying, some kind of put down about a person having many knives but none of them particularly sharp or something like that

DK

 

[mausketeer]

Yeah, OK,

The reason he wont teach me advanced things such as the bezel setting that's described in detail in all my four basic goldsmith books is that he don't know how to do it himself.

Oh boy, I'm glad that's the ONE thing you got out of all that stuff I was trying to get through to you........ lol

NEXT!

 

[Mervione]

dkan: That's very much true but a professional goldsmith that he say he is should be able to set stones. I'm fairly sure it's part of the ges?ll-test (a goldsmith test that is a proof of your abilities as a goldsmith. To become a goldsmith master in Sweden you have to do that test and pass it.)

 

[pattye]

Just want to share my little story about my first experience soldering. Recently took a 2 hr class at a new bead shop in town. Very cute and friendly guy! Said he was self taught. We were 3 students in a closed in room, no ventilation, pickle pots going, and the little kitchen torches. Not one word about safety!!!

We were making basic joins, circles, and some made peace sign pendants. He said we didn't need to use any but medium solder and lots of flux!

I truly felt I wasn't getting a good education, even though the circles I made turned out ok.

I borrowed some books from a friend who was a bench jeweler, that helped me get a clearer picture of the overall process. If I take more classes, it will probably be at the local art college.

It's not so different from a cooking class---

!. What is the basic recipe?

2. What's the correct technique; lots of stuff can't be written down. It needs to be demonstrated, then practiced.

3. What are the objective criteria for knowing the work is done correctly?
(Did the cake fall? Did the gravy thicken?)

4. What are the safety precautions?

5. How to evaluate the final product?

Jodie, you make some great points about the safety issues, some I was not aware of in my very limited experience.