Elusive Loop technique

[danachit]

Okay, I give up.

I have had several necklaces that needed restringing and the original knotter attached the clasp not with gimp, but with the silk directly attached to the clasp....a larkshead knot.

I understand the concept behind this 'knot'. You make a loop, push the whole loop up through the clasp, then bring the needle end through the loop, thus making a solid hold.

However.....when thinking of using a double strand of silk, how would one do this? where would the knot be?

I've seen this sillk/clasp attach method on many, many pearls and though I know it isn't the way of choice, I would still like to know how to do it.

Does anyone know of an online video or illustration that shows this method? I believe I saw someone on here, once, call it the Hong Kong method or something like that... Thanks!

 

[Pearl Dreams]

A lark's head knot-- you can just form a loop with the doubled threads and bring the needle through.

 

[danachit]

But where is the knot, attaching the two ends of the silk, going to end up?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Okay, I just did this with a needle and thread I had handy, using a paper clip to stand in for the clasp. This works but you would have to be able to pass 4 strands of silk through the end beads:

Ignore this and go directly to post 10 for a better way

About 3 inches from the ends of the silk (you will need this later), form the loop and pass it through the clasp. Pass the needle through that loop, and holding the loose ends of the silk so they don't get tangled up in the knot, tighten the lark's head knot.

You should now have a knot around the clasp. Pass the needle and the loose ends through the first bead/pearl. Make a lark's head knot around the two threads (the 3 inch length of doubled ends of the silk that were left over from making the first loop earlier) and tighten. String another bead on the needle and the loose ends. Make another lark's head knot, then another bead etc.until the 3 inch end is used up or you have strung 3 beads. Put a drop of glue on the last lark's head knot and trim away the last of the 3 inch ends.

Then keep stringing onto the needle making knots the usual way instead.

At the other end, string on the last 3 beads without knots. Pass needle through the clasp, double back and make lark's head knots between beads around the silk.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

If you can't pass the needle and the loose ends though the end beads, you could use a single bead (like a gold ball) with a wider bore as an end bead. Then the knot is concealed by the bead. I used a silver rondelle bead for this purpose when I made a bracelet.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I'm not sure I answered your question but I'll check back in a few minutes....gotta rescue bread from bread machines...

 

[Pearl Dreams]

I just reread post 3-- when you thread the needle, don't knot between the two strands of silk.

 

[danachit]

How would I pass the needle AND those two loose ends through a pearl? I can see that if I had this GINORMOUS hole in the pearls....but that would mess with forming a proper knot and keeping it in place, right?

 

[Pearl Dreams]

You can stiffen the ends of the threads, or you can do as I did since I didn't have any gum arabic. (see post 5).

 

[Pearl Dreams]

OK, I was eating lunch and it hit me:

The beads would still have to be wide enough for 4 thicknesses of silk, but this makes it easier to thread them through the beads:

First thread 2 or 3 beads onto the needle and slide them to within 3" of the ends of the thread (which you've secured with a clip.) Don't knot between beads. Then make a lark's head knot, forming the loop with the doubled silk near the beads; pass the needle through the loop to make the knot. Double back, pass needle through first bead, snugging it up against the knot. Make a lark's head knot around the thread that you first strung the beads with. Put needle through second bead, knot, third bead, knot, glue, trim ends, and string more beads, knotting in the normal method.

At the other end, string on the last 3 beads without knots. Pass needle through the clasp, double back and make lark's head knots between beads around the silk. Glue final knot and trim.

 

[knotty panda]

The question is, is the larkshead knot on the clasp single or double? It should be a single thread which means the drill holes would only have to be large enough for a double thickness of silk. Not sure what you're working with, danachit, but that's what I've seen. Still, I think gimp is an improvement over this technique as the jump ring on the clasp moves freely. The larkshead knot on the silk is a stationary knot and unless you are using a very small jump ring, the larkshead is not only visually unappealing, but a larger jump buts more stress on the knot.

 

[danachit]

I agree Knotty. But I keep coming up with pearl restringing jobs where the larks head knot is what is on the clasp loop. Again and again and AGAIN I come across this technique. I have no problem re-doing the strand with the gimp, but if the person prefers it redone exactly as is, then I need to learn how to do it.

So far, I'm still confused a bit. Why would I need to do a larks head knot around the end pearls instead of the traditional overhead knot?

 

[knotty panda]

Beats the heck out of me! I'm not telling if you don't! What happens on the forum, STAYS on the forum!

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Just came back after being out all day.

I've used the larks head knot around the end pearls for convenience, but if you want to do overhand, go for it!

 

[flycatcher]

OK, now I am trying to figure out how one would do a larks head knot between pearls. I know how to do this to attach the thread to the jump ring but between pearls? Isn't this sort of an "end" type knot rather than a "middle" type knot? Try as I might, I just cannot visualize this between pearls. I have always (all three times) used a larks head, with gimp, for the clasp and an overhand knot between pearls. Can someone explain, where a newbie can understand, how to use a larks head knot between pearls? Thanks!

--Stephen

 

[knotty panda]

You would use a line which has the pearls strung without knots. Then thread in between each pearl with another line using the larkshead.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

You can form a lark's head knot between the end pearls provided they are already strung-- that is, there has to be a thread around which you form the lark's head knot, either a carrier line (which I believe it was Knotty who mentioned in another thread some months ago) or the length of thread the end pearls were strung on before the clasp was attached.

Holding the needle in your right hand, wrap the thread halfway around your left index finger. Pinch the threads to form a loop; remove the loop from your finger. Pass the loop behind the thread on which the pearls were strung. Put the needle through that loop, and pulling it tight, form the lark's head knot around the thread on which the pearls are strung.

 

[Pearl Dreams]

Eh, didn't notice Knotty's post on page 2 before I rambled on...her explanation is simpler!

 

[flycatcher]

I think I see how this might ultimately look between the pearls but I am just not seeing how to do this. Let me think about it a bit and maybe try to draw it. (I have to see it. That is one of the hazards of being male.)

Right now I am just about ready to set my hair on fire trying to figure this out but it seems to be alot more work than an overhand knot.

--Stephen

 

[flycatcher]

Pearl_dreams,

Using a short length of power pro that I had on my desk I tried to do what you described. I ended up with what I would call half of a larkshead knot. It seems to me that this would tend to slide along the carrier thread. Is that what you want? I can see how that feature might make the knot easier to snug up against the pearl.

After playing around a little more I managed to tie a full larkshead knot but not the way you described. My brain hurts now.

--Stephen