L
ladykemma
Guest
would you use bead -quality FWP to bead an elizabethan fore-part? why or why not?
or good fakes? which would stand up under dry cleaning?
or good fakes? which would stand up under dry cleaning?
S
Satine De La Courcel
Guest
Hi Ladykemma,
AS for teh elizabethan forepart. you coul duse either, real pearls are more impressive for SCA just becasue you took the time to use real pearls and that is what would have been done in the elizabethan period. Glass ones are a decent alternative but they can get pretty pricey if you intend to use a lot of them....
HOWEVER...... It is unadvisable to Dry clean Plastic or real pearls. The plastic ones have had the tendancy to melt, and the real ones can get destroyed, loose their luster, and possibly crack. I have not used glass pearls because I never remember they are available!
Pearls weather high end or low end beading quality which is what we are exposed in SCA by merchants and at local beading stores or places like michels, hobby lobby and walmart. are an investment.. even if they seem cheap.. Remember they are a gemstone not just a bead!
you must also realize that pearling a garment in more than just
'beading" it as many SCAdians treat it. That additude drives me nuts, funny coning from a lowly beader huh....
In period if you wore pearls and how many you wore would have been asign of wealth Especially in England, Portugal, Spain and France during the later 1500's when the age of pearls was at its peak! Italian wore pearls byt never to the extent they did in the countries I mentioned.. they still revered pearls as a status symbol but they often did their own things and garb styles were vastly different during the same time frame!
Good grief I am off track... typical scadian LOL...
Make your forepart hand washable and not drycleanable if you are going to use real pearls, Especially for your elizabethan you want your pearls to stay as beautiful as possible for as long as posible.... never dry clean real pearls.....
hope this helps some
cheers
Ash
AS for teh elizabethan forepart. you coul duse either, real pearls are more impressive for SCA just becasue you took the time to use real pearls and that is what would have been done in the elizabethan period. Glass ones are a decent alternative but they can get pretty pricey if you intend to use a lot of them....
HOWEVER...... It is unadvisable to Dry clean Plastic or real pearls. The plastic ones have had the tendancy to melt, and the real ones can get destroyed, loose their luster, and possibly crack. I have not used glass pearls because I never remember they are available!
Pearls weather high end or low end beading quality which is what we are exposed in SCA by merchants and at local beading stores or places like michels, hobby lobby and walmart. are an investment.. even if they seem cheap.. Remember they are a gemstone not just a bead!
you must also realize that pearling a garment in more than just
'beading" it as many SCAdians treat it. That additude drives me nuts, funny coning from a lowly beader huh....
In period if you wore pearls and how many you wore would have been asign of wealth Especially in England, Portugal, Spain and France during the later 1500's when the age of pearls was at its peak! Italian wore pearls byt never to the extent they did in the countries I mentioned.. they still revered pearls as a status symbol but they often did their own things and garb styles were vastly different during the same time frame!
Good grief I am off track... typical scadian LOL...
Make your forepart hand washable and not drycleanable if you are going to use real pearls, Especially for your elizabethan you want your pearls to stay as beautiful as possible for as long as posible.... never dry clean real pearls.....
hope this helps some
cheers
Ash
S
Satine De La Courcel
Guest
Hi all,
I am surprised that I am the only one to respond To lady kemma, Woudl anyone else be abl tto give a better insight. I only gave my opinon based on trial and error.. Anyone else have any insight or opinions????? What say you??? Anyone anyone??? Bueler?? Bueler?????
Just wanting to see what others have to say!
Cheers
Ash
I am surprised that I am the only one to respond To lady kemma, Woudl anyone else be abl tto give a better insight. I only gave my opinon based on trial and error.. Anyone else have any insight or opinions????? What say you??? Anyone anyone??? Bueler?? Bueler?????
Just wanting to see what others have to say!
Cheers
Ash
Z
Zeide Erskine
Guest
Hi Ash & Lady Kemma,
I thought the answer was obvious, do as Old Lizzy did. In Elizabethan times and particularly as far as Elizabeth's own clothing was concerned, she used cheap off-round natural marine pearls or fish-silver imitations that had the fish-scale lacquer inside the glass bead rather than the other way around. Of course, at that time nobody had ever heard of dry cleaning.
So, back to the drawing board. Dry cleaning uses volatile hydrocarbons that dry out pearls and make the nacre brittle. That means freshwater pearls are in danger. Most fakes are made with acrylic lacquer that also dissolves or gradually degrades in dry cleaning. The typical renaissance solution was to wash neither person nor clothes but just air them out. Elizabeth I, however was known to be the fastidious one and took a bath once a year whether she needed it or not. Some of her clothes have also been rumored to have been washed. Depending on how expensive and elaborate the garb is, the best idea is to only wash the chemise that comes into direct skin contact and have the actual outergown only spot-cleaned.
Zeide
I thought the answer was obvious, do as Old Lizzy did. In Elizabethan times and particularly as far as Elizabeth's own clothing was concerned, she used cheap off-round natural marine pearls or fish-silver imitations that had the fish-scale lacquer inside the glass bead rather than the other way around. Of course, at that time nobody had ever heard of dry cleaning.
So, back to the drawing board. Dry cleaning uses volatile hydrocarbons that dry out pearls and make the nacre brittle. That means freshwater pearls are in danger. Most fakes are made with acrylic lacquer that also dissolves or gradually degrades in dry cleaning. The typical renaissance solution was to wash neither person nor clothes but just air them out. Elizabeth I, however was known to be the fastidious one and took a bath once a year whether she needed it or not. Some of her clothes have also been rumored to have been washed. Depending on how expensive and elaborate the garb is, the best idea is to only wash the chemise that comes into direct skin contact and have the actual outergown only spot-cleaned.
Zeide
S
Satine De La Courcel
Guest
Hi Zeide,
thank you for your replay, and I for one can tell you any modern re-enactor will want their Elizabethan ganment to last as long as posible as well as bea pretty for as long as possible... Not many teach abotu using pearls on garments.. I am hoping to change that, Pros cons care of the garment... for any period! etc... I have a list .. anyway
you pointed out some very elementary common knowledge that most costumers I know (I know quite a few ) And old bess took a bath once amonth weather she needed it or not (That clean a queen would not have had such a long reign if she took a bath yearly..... LOL
) and she was notorious for giving away her personal effects such as gloves and gowns so they were "washed" what was aired out mor than any other garment was the shift and corset ( most nobility had two of these garments. which go under the chemise. )
anyway ... any one else have any Odeas does anyone know about MODEDRN GLASS pearls???? woudl you use tehm or not ??? I only use them for Jewelry
AS for th OBVIOUD ness of your post sure if you want to supply me GIVE them to me) with thousands of cheap knock off marine pearls I will gladly use them on more garb!!!!!! (Mosty SCAdians do not have that kind of money and any real pearl used on garb is a WOW its real preals how cool factor...)
Cheers
ASh
thank you for your replay, and I for one can tell you any modern re-enactor will want their Elizabethan ganment to last as long as posible as well as bea pretty for as long as possible... Not many teach abotu using pearls on garments.. I am hoping to change that, Pros cons care of the garment... for any period! etc... I have a list .. anyway
you pointed out some very elementary common knowledge that most costumers I know (I know quite a few ) And old bess took a bath once amonth weather she needed it or not (That clean a queen would not have had such a long reign if she took a bath yearly..... LOL
) and she was notorious for giving away her personal effects such as gloves and gowns so they were "washed" what was aired out mor than any other garment was the shift and corset ( most nobility had two of these garments. which go under the chemise. ) anyway ... any one else have any Odeas does anyone know about MODEDRN GLASS pearls???? woudl you use tehm or not ??? I only use them for Jewelry
AS for th OBVIOUD ness of your post sure if you want to supply me GIVE them to me) with thousands of cheap knock off marine pearls I will gladly use them on more garb!!!!!! (Mosty SCAdians do not have that kind of money and any real pearl used on garb is a WOW its real preals how cool factor...)
Cheers
ASh
Z
Zeide Erskine
Guest
Hi Ash,
The quib of Queen Elizabeth I bathing once a year whether she needed it or not has been attributed to Shakespeare. Not even royalty bathed once a month, though, and nobody bathed between October and the end of Lent. Anyhow, off-round freshwater pearls will do fine on your garb. Just make sure that you only spot clean and not dry clean the whole outfit. Sweat pads under the arms made of silk stuffed with kapok were a common way to keep your clothes smelling nice as was rotation. Since you are not wearing your garb on a daily basis, rotation is really no big problem.
Zeide
The quib of Queen Elizabeth I bathing once a year whether she needed it or not has been attributed to Shakespeare. Not even royalty bathed once a month, though, and nobody bathed between October and the end of Lent. Anyhow, off-round freshwater pearls will do fine on your garb. Just make sure that you only spot clean and not dry clean the whole outfit. Sweat pads under the arms made of silk stuffed with kapok were a common way to keep your clothes smelling nice as was rotation. Since you are not wearing your garb on a daily basis, rotation is really no big problem.
Zeide
Last edited by a moderator:
S
Satine De La Courcel
Guest
Hi Zeide,
I thougth I had read the Once a month thing in Janet one of the Janet Arnold books She was the woman actually allowed to study anything extant from the elizabethan era upclose..... ... Never heard of the the underarm thing before! I fiond it interesteing and gross actually!
I have only done One eliizabethan gown for myself! I do more Italian 1480-1575, (less layers of stuff to worry about and more forgiving on a larger figure!), 16th C Turkish and Persian these days (women get to wear pants as well as pearls besides its a pain to Bellydance in all those skirts!) I also only use natural fibers, wools, Silks Linnens and cottons (which were common in these regions not necessarily England for cotton.)
I have been told and have yet to verify this that The english were not so much for bathing. I have been doing my homework... And shakespear was known to exaderate abit..... Great writer I had to read almost all his plays for a class in H.S. The English tended to rely on lots of powders and such. But more southern cuntries like Italy they did bathe more than once a year. and have mroe than one shift, corset and chemise to aire out..This is Royalty nly we are talking about! but then again I have not verified this.. I am happy to handwash my clothes, I am very careful with anything I have adorned weather pearled or heavily beaded....
I di dnoe know what to tell this lady abotu the Glass pearls. For I would never waste my time on drycleaning materials. But then again its me...
Thanks for your input !
Cheers
Ash
I thougth I had read the Once a month thing in Janet one of the Janet Arnold books She was the woman actually allowed to study anything extant from the elizabethan era upclose..... ... Never heard of the the underarm thing before! I fiond it interesteing and gross actually!
I have only done One eliizabethan gown for myself! I do more Italian 1480-1575, (less layers of stuff to worry about and more forgiving on a larger figure!), 16th C Turkish and Persian these days (women get to wear pants as well as pearls besides its a pain to Bellydance in all those skirts!) I also only use natural fibers, wools, Silks Linnens and cottons (which were common in these regions not necessarily England for cotton.)
I have been told and have yet to verify this that The english were not so much for bathing. I have been doing my homework... And shakespear was known to exaderate abit..... Great writer I had to read almost all his plays for a class in H.S. The English tended to rely on lots of powders and such. But more southern cuntries like Italy they did bathe more than once a year. and have mroe than one shift, corset and chemise to aire out..This is Royalty nly we are talking about! but then again I have not verified this.. I am happy to handwash my clothes, I am very careful with anything I have adorned weather pearled or heavily beaded....
I di dnoe know what to tell this lady abotu the Glass pearls. For I would never waste my time on drycleaning materials. But then again its me...
Thanks for your input !
Cheers
Ash
Z
Zeide Erskine
Guest
Hi Ash,
England is now and was then a rather colder place than Italy and the buildings both humble and splendid were rather draughty to say the least. It was also the common wisdom of the time that bathing (rather than just sponging your body) in the winter would give you consumption (which is not true) and nobody wanted that. So the best time to visit England in the 1500-1600s was right around Easter when everybody took their annual bath. That did not help the odors emanating from open sewers but at least your sensibilities would not have been too offended at larger gatherings in palaces and such.
I always wondered what this perfume Venezia was supposed to smell like. The Canale Grande (especially in the summer) is definitely not the kind of fragrance experience I would want to project in public.
Zeide
England is now and was then a rather colder place than Italy and the buildings both humble and splendid were rather draughty to say the least. It was also the common wisdom of the time that bathing (rather than just sponging your body) in the winter would give you consumption (which is not true) and nobody wanted that. So the best time to visit England in the 1500-1600s was right around Easter when everybody took their annual bath. That did not help the odors emanating from open sewers but at least your sensibilities would not have been too offended at larger gatherings in palaces and such.
I always wondered what this perfume Venezia was supposed to smell like. The Canale Grande (especially in the summer) is definitely not the kind of fragrance experience I would want to project in public.
Zeide
S
Satine De La Courcel
Guest
Hi Zeide,
I have never had the pleasure to get out out North America.. I hope to be able to someday rectify that. Wow have we really come a long way since those times for hygene???? As for the weather thing I have not done my research on that aspect of life yet...
Hmm.. I will see what I can find out about the fragrance Venezia If i can I will post eh findings!
Thanks~!
Ash
I have never had the pleasure to get out out North America.. I hope to be able to someday rectify that. Wow have we really come a long way since those times for hygene???? As for the weather thing I have not done my research on that aspect of life yet...
Hmm.. I will see what I can find out about the fragrance Venezia If i can I will post eh findings!
Thanks~!
Ash
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