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  1. #1
    bernd
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    Default freshwater- keshi ???

    Hello everyone,

    Im glad to find that special forum :-)

    ...one day a pearldealer came into my shop and showed me u.a. some pearlstrands and called them "freshwater-keshi" !

    I never heared about that pearl-typ.

    I learned, that there exists only "Southsee",- and "Akoya-keshi"...
    and a keshi-pearl ever is a pearl without kern, because it`s a spin-off during the culturing.
    Also in my books I found nothing about it.

    So is this only a dealers propaganda trick, a selling synonyme to raise the price for normal freshwater pearls, or exists that pearls really???

    You can see a pic of them:
    http://www.sternburg.de/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=36

    Hope to find an expert here, to get a binding answer.

    Thank you in advance,
    Bernd

  2. #2
    Zeide Erskine
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    Default Freshwater keshi

    Hallo Bernd,

    F?r kernlose S??wasserperlen macht der Begriff "Keshi" eigentlich wenig Sinn, weil ein Gro?teil der S??wasserperlen ohnehin kernlos ist und der Begriff Keshi als Unterscheidungsmerkmal kaum geeignet ist.

    Die Perlen sehen aus wie 2-Generations-Zucht. Das hei?t, nachdem aus einem Perlsack bereits gro?e Perlen (mit oder ohne Kern) geerntet wurden, ist die Muschel zur?ck ins Wasser gesetzt worden und nach relativ kurzer Zeit wurden flache, kernlose Perlen daraus geerntet. Auch Perlen die bei der S??wasserzucht spontan im Weichk?rper entstehen k?nnen so aussehen und sollten wie bei S?dsee- oder Akoyaperlen als Keshis gelten. Man sieht auch ?fter die Bezeichnung Bl?tenblattperlen (petal pearls) f?r diese Form. Rein von der Zusammensetzung und Form betrachtet ist eigentlich wenig gegen die Bezeichnung Keshi einzuwenden, selbst wenn das urspr?ngliche japanische Wort Mohnsamen bedeutet und die Perlen eindeutig nicht wie Mohnsamen aussehen, so ist die Bezeichnung doch nicht gesch?tzt.

    MfG,

    Zeide G. Erskine
    Last edited by Zeide Erskine; 01-26-2007 at 05:15 PM.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    As Zeide explained, the term Keshi does not really make sense in freshwater, because freshwater pearls are produced in a manner that produces ‘Keshi’ in other bead-nucleated pearl bearing mollusks - freshwater pearls have no real nucleus.

    Basically, the mantle tissue creates a separate pearl sack in an Akoya, without a bead. This is every pearl in freshwater.

    I have not really seen the process of returning a piece of shell to the pearl sac, Zeide. Can you explain the process a bit more (is it like coin?). I have heard the term petal pearls, and I do agree this term is better than Keshi (poppy seed), as they look nothing like it. But the petal pearls seem very prevalent to me, a designers’ choice typically. Not one I would have a use for.
    Last edited by jshepherd; 02-18-2006 at 04:50 PM.

  4. #4
    Zeide Erskine
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    Default Freshwater keshis

    Hi Jeremy,

    Petal pearls come from used pearl sacs in molluscs that had already produced a large pearl either nucleated or non-nucleated. In the first harvest the large pearl is removed, the sac left empty and the mussel returned to the pond. After another year or so, this yields mostly petal pearls or some large buttons with smooth bottoms that do not need to be cut off the shell. The petal pearls are very popular as are the large buttons, the former for exotic necklaces and the latter for earrings.


    Zeide

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    It seems strange to me, based on this process, that the term "keshi petal pearl" is more or less an accepted term. I have heard it, and have seen petal pearls described as such, but did not believe the process was typical of genuine keshi. The look is much more intentional.
    I actually do think petals are beautiful, they can have great orient. I have never marketed them, however, as I do not feel they are the right mix with our products.

  6. #6
    Zeide Erskine
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    Default Freshwater keshi

    There are plenty of "south sea keshis" made the same way, i.e. letting the pearl sac produce an all nacre pearl after harvesting the "pearl plated bead." And there is a big market for them. So why not be fair and let the freshwater farmers call their pearls the same term?

    As my quotation marks indicate, I do not even consider the standard pearl plated beads cultured pearls. In order to be a pearl it has to be all nacre. Gold plated jewelry has a layer of gold on the outside. If that cannot be called "gold cultured jewelry" so why should Tahitian, South Sea, or akoya pearl plated beads be passing for pearls?

    Another frequently perpetrated myth is that only Tahitian pearls (pinctada margaritifera) are naturally dark. I recommend looking up "black pearls" in the index of The Book of the Pearl. You will see that all pearl species can produce black pearls. The difference is just in the frequency. Another myth is that Cortez pearls are of the "Tahitian" variety. They are not. They are grown in pteria sterna and that is a totally different species. Alasmodonta woodiana is a freshwater mussel that typically produces dark pearls in a variety of colors and with a luster that is superior to Tahitians. The mantle tissue of this species is now used to nucleate hyropsis cumingii/schlegeli hybrids. Not to mention the transgrafts of pinctada and pteria species. There is a lot new stuff going on in pearl world and one should not fall for Mikimouso advertising talk too much.

    Zeide

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    I think that is definitely the exception, not the rule, as so many are renucleated. Many more are produced by scattering pieces of mantle.

    As my quotation marks indicate, I do not even consider the standard pearl plated beads cultured pearls. In order to be a pearl it has to be all nacre. Gold plated jewelry has a layer of gold on the outside. If that cannot be called "gold cultured jewelry" so why should Tahitian, South Sea, or akoya pearl plated beads be passing for pearls?
    Personally I am glad your opinion of today's cultured pearls is a minorty view. If this were public opinion there would be no Akoya, South Sea, nor Tahitian pearls. There would be almost no market for pearls. I do not see cultured pearls as frauds, as see them as saving the industry.

    In order to be a pearl it has to be all nacre.
    I feel this should be prefaced, "In my opinion...". A respected opinion but a lonely position.

    Another frequently perpetrated myth is that only Tahitian pearls (pinctada margaritifera) are naturally dark. I recommend looking up "black pearls" in the index of The Book of the Pearl. You will see that all pearl species can produce black pearls. The difference is just in the frequency.
    This is true, but it must be taken into context. The discussion is nearly always regarding a strand of pearls (especially on this forum). Sure there is an exception to every rule, but the rule still stands and is correct.

  8. #8
    Pearl Maven Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Caitlin's Avatar
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    Not only are there infinite amounts to learn about pearls themselves, the pearl business is a whole other thing with ins and outs I can't even imagine.
    Last edited by Caitlin; 02-14-2007 at 04:24 PM.

  9. #9
    Pearl Maven Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Caitlin's Avatar
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    This forum is a bit of a myth dispelling tool.

    I don't read German. It sounds like Perlen needs to be translated to English.
    Last edited by Caitlin; 02-14-2007 at 04:27 PM.

  10. #10
    Zeide Erskine
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    Default Perlen

    Hi Caitlin,

    As far as I last heard it has already been translated into English and not by me. I was contemplating buying the English translation just for the heck of it but thought - nay - if I want another one, I rather wait until a German update comes out. It is, however, very much worth having especially if natural pearls are your passion.

    Zeide

  11. #11
    Pearl Maven Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Caitlin's Avatar
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    Hi Zeide
    After I left the Forum yesteday, I hunted Amazon, then Google for the book. Found reference to it on an agta and a Gia page. That it was well received and recently translated into English. Saw a pic of Elisabeth Strack. But can't find the actual book- got a lead?

  12. #12
    jerin
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    Thumbs up Books on Pearls

    Hi, Caitlin and Zeide,

    I just purchased the book "Perlen" and it is worth every cent (since it is payable in Euros). It is possible to get in English but it will cost you more. I paid about 70 Euros for the german version and You should order it from the Rühle-Diebener Verlag, I tried Elisabeth Stracks company first but they told me to go through the publisher directly.

    It is very, very extensive with everything one wants to know. By the way, thanks for complementing my pics on the Abalone shell, it certainly is nice to hold in my hand. My sister is sending me two other Abalone shells, it will be nice to see whether they are like this one or even more beautiful.

    Inge

  13. #13
    Pearl Maven Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Caitlin's Avatar
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    Hi Inge
    I emailed the publisher. I think this will be a great step forward in the pearl knowledge.
    Caitlin

    How to hand-knot pearls without a tool

    My avatar is a Sea of Cortez mabe pearl. One of a pair of Mexican handmade earrings.

  14. #14
    Richard W. Wise
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    Caitlin,
    I also am looking for the English translation of Perlen.

    Any luck?

  15. #15
    AnnaDK
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    Smile Books on Changing the Status Quo

    Hi Zeide,

    After reading through this thread I feel compelled to recommend you another novel. Though it does not involve pearls directly, I think you will find a lot of humor and wit in the lead character--as she deals with the irony of the marketing world and Branding. (Along the lines of your "Mystique"). In essence, you remind me of her. The book is Pattern Recognition by William Gibson. This book generated such a stir that Buzz Rickson actually went out of his way to create the trademark jacket of the protagonist. If you do not know, Rickson is famous for recreating 40's vintage clothing to the letter.
    As quoted by the Eastman Trading website, "This range of specialist 40's style wartime flying jackets and accessories, has been compiled for those of us who desire a truly authentic garment from that period. That is, a garment which in design, components, and quality, matches in every detail possible the original garment which it is a reproduction of."
    Attention to detail and accuracy is something that is often overlooked by consumers, especially when it comes to pearls. This forum is an attempt to debunk a lot of the myths around pearls and how they derive their value. But it is also more than that, as you challenge the traditional cultured pearl industry with terms like "pearl-plated beads" and superior knowledge of pure nacre pearls. Anyway, check the book out--I really think you would like it.