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  1. #1
    Inactive Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    Default Be well, my friends.

    This split from this thread: https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sh...on-Association

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Canning View Post
    But what I might ask is, does it really matter that much?
    When it's dismissed as an affront to others, I take exception.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Canning View Post
    You're always welcome to start a new thread to discuss the issue and post some evidence.
    How many times do I need to reiterate this that it might sink in?

    https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sh...ll=1#post75613

    https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sh...l=1#post117798

    https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sh...l=1#post176786

    https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sh...l=1#post126115

    I am going to say this one more time before taking my leave permanently.

    I have great respect for Douglas and his work. However, that video is solely a demonstration of one mollusk's ability to purge sand in an artificial setting absent of the necessary controls to be deemed an objective experiment, yet an erroneous scientific conclusion has been drawn that sand does not create a pearl, ever. A conclusion that is being perpetuated as science fact by this group, despite evidence to the contrary. I've been chastised and dismissed for refuting this numerous times.

    I am quite certain Douglas does not view my scrutiny in this matter as an affront. After all, he's a bona fide scientist and the rigors of skepticism or speculation are accepted tenets. Standing corrected is not taken personally, but as lessons learned. Admittedly, while a lot of what I write is speculative and conveyed with conviction, it's based on physical observation and/or emerging patterns from compiled data. I am stood corrected, constantly by my peers. Anyone who's been peer reviewed understands it's not personal. However censorship of known facts for unrelated reasoning is not acceptable. I do not accept branding as a pariah by farmers for discussing technical procedures or by those who would silence me on another person's behalf, as though it's audacity, belligerence or imparting embarrassment.

    While I'm not a scientist, my methods and colleagues are. I never observed sand at the nucleus of pearl before 2012, but after viewing that video I took up the challenge to include it as part of my work. By 2013 and having access to high level labs, it was elevated to a priority. Along with my own collections, I put out bounties to the diving and fishing community to provide samples of any molluskan species which may have been affected by sand. Sand was identified by microscopy and chemical analysis in eleven of eighteen species examined. Sub-classes Pteriomorphia, pectinidae, ostrea, and heterodonta all yielded evidence of pearl onset by sand. My work is often dangerous, expensive, physically demanding and politically or regulatory burdensome.

    P-G is purported to be an education site, but anything that does not represent vanity or profit takes a back seat. Contributions by other farmers or scientists are woefully low. My work as been derided by admins as "having no bearing on anything" or "almost always wrong". If the development of new technologies for the pearling industry, climate change, public health and safety, species identification and biomass surveys are not important to this group, it's time to move on.

    I will not beat my head against the wall any further.

    Be well, my friends.

  2. #2
    Natural Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Sanippy's Avatar
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    Default

    Hi Dave

    I'm not sure what's been going on behind the scenes, but I'm sorry that you feel slighted or dismissed. I really enjoy your posts and am thankful for the time you take to educate people on this forum, as I'm sure many other members are too.

    Perhaps this is a case of miscommunication? When I read the threads you linked above I can see that many members agree with your posts on this issue. But maybe sometimes when members refer to the sand myth, they do so as a broad generalisation to dismiss the common misconception that cultured pearls are (always) made from a grain of sand.

    Anyways you are a valued member here, and I hope you continue to post!

  3. #3
    Rare Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Marianne's Avatar
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    David, your contributions to P-G over the years have been and remain such a valuable source of information. So many of us look forward to your thoughtful and informative posts. They help to make this a more balanced educational forum. I will be sad if you do not re-consider.

  4. #4
    Pearlista Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert GemGeek's Avatar
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    Default

    We are much better with you than without you. Hugs.

  5. #5
    Pearl Enthusiast Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Pearl Dreams's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GemGeek View Post
    We are much better with you than without you. Hugs.
    Well said and I couldn't agree more!

  6. #6
    Natural Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert la_corsetiere's Avatar
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    Default

    I echo Marianne and Sanippy's sentiments. Dave, your research has convinced me that natural pearls can indeed be caused by a grain of sand. Likewise, I am convinced by Douglas' video that oysters have a good facility for purging out sand. That said, I have no doubt that a grain of sand can potentially get lodged in a mollusk and form the nucleus of a pearl, as the occasional splinter will get lodged in an extremity and become infected. I do think the "grain of sand myth" needs to be dispelled in that it erroneously implies that is the basis for cultured pearls and/or that natural pearls are common or perhaps almost inevitable, when they are in fact rare. I don't think the new FB site had ulterior motives in posting Douglas' video. Perhaps they gloss over science with a somewhat simplistic approach. I think an appropriate response would be a clarifying post to their site to complement or contrast with Douglas' research.

    We will miss your contributions if you leave P-G.

  7. #7
    First-graft Pearl Senior Guide Member Camelotshadow's Avatar
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    Please don;t give up for there are many that will benefit from your contributions. To heck with what the others think. If there is censorship involved then it certainly is not the educated way to persue anything in the name of science.

    I was oblivious to this sand issue but most of us don't lay on the bottom of the ocean & probe oysters. If you observe an osyter in a manmade environment & introduce irritants whos to say that the oyster reacts differently than under depths of the ocean.

    I know sand is a real pain & days after the beach even after washing & shaking some of the darn stuff remains...

    I don;t know why they are not finding more sand at the center of natural pearls. It certainly is interesting. Maybe those oysters die.

    All I know if it was not for you I would not even be thinking about it...

    You've climbed tall mountains in the cold, braved the icy salt water in your face for days & dug deep into the earth for slabs of green gold...
    I think you can jump over this obstacle....

    I hope so as this world needs people like you!

  8. #8
    Pearlista Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert GemGeek's Avatar
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    Very well said!!! Dave's contributions are important and very welcome here. I did not mean to be dismissive about grains of sand. I care about research, but I also function in the gemology world where lab results carry a lot of weight. Lab results for the most saleable pearls...

  9. #9
    Rare Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert CathyKeshi's Avatar
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    Dave, I have avidly read every word you've posted here, along with Douglas and our other experts. It's what drew me here and kept me here. Every member of this community is of great value, even in disagreement. Gem Geek said it best "We are better with you ..." ... without you we are diminished. I dearly hope you will take some time on your beloved mountain and come back to us when you are ready. Meanwhile, stay safe and travel well, my friend.
    Cathy

    CathyKeshi

  10. #10
    Second-graft Pearl Senior Guide Member
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    Dave, from the beginning I've always valued and looked forward to reading all your informative posts, even if I don't always post a response. I hope you will reconsider, and know your value to us all.

  11. #11
    Museum Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    What can I say that hasn't already been said. You add such value to this forum with your informative and interesting posts . You have no commercial agenda and can be counted on to shoot straight. Maybe take a breather ..and then return to open arms ! We will really miss you. See you on FB . Xx

  12. #12
    Natural Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert amti's Avatar
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    Default

    I guess I'm lost. I thought the other location was where you posted your questions and they were removed. What does that have to do with PG? Were you censored on PG? And you are most certainly a scientist!

    I, as well as everyone who has posted on any of your threads, respect your opinion and work. I hope you know that. I'm sorry you feel leaving is the best solution to your years of hard work and attempts to educate people like me. It is working, you know! You have a following of folks that love your posts about your journeys in jade and amethyst, and of course, natural pearls. Picking your brain is always a learning experience for us and you are a fascinating individual that has an enormous amount of patience and the ability to explain difficult things in words we can all understand.

    One of the most important things my biology teacher told us in high school was that science was ever changing. We are learning new things every day and have to keep our minds open to discovery and new ideas. If we choose to close the door to learning, we lose a valuable gift. Please, keep this door open and continue to share with us your discoveries and help us learn what you have known all along and what you learn that is new. If you choose to go, I will be disappointed in you for giving in so easily to a disagreeing opinion. It isn't fun facing obstacles, but make them your reason to speak louder. Please know that we will miss you terribly should you go, but I really hope you consider staying. Thank you for all you have shared and for reading this.

  13. #13
    Second-graft Pearl Senior Guide Member
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    Dave , I take off my head for you
    Attached Images Attached Images

  14. #14
    Museum Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert BWeaves's Avatar
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    Dave, please do not leave us. I find your information very helpful and informational.

  15. #15
    Museum Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert JerseyPearl's Avatar
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    Dave, I feel absolutely terrible for even starting that thread. Please do reconsider your decision; we are a better community because of your participation.
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