not round but not so free form = baroque?

[pearlpunk]

i have recently shifted slowly, very slowly, from oogling perfect rounds (AAA) to baroques (but still want freshadamas!!). now. do we call the more roundish baroques (longish but still roundish with smooth curves) "baroque" too? because they are not perfectly round? or is there a different term for these? they just look too different from each other that rationally there should be a different way to refer to each... (the operative word being 'should be'?)

as you can see, i am already planning my next project...

 

[Valeria101]

I don't think there is a special name for the 'plump' baroques as opposed to the 'skinny' ... but there should be! Some folks call the skinny baroque pearls 'keshi' which isn't exactly correct, but fills the void in pearl lingo

Second the question!

 

[knotty panda]

To get from round to baroque, you go through roundish, near-round, oval, pear, button, rondelle -- what did I miss? Do any of these describe what you are seeing?

 

[Valeria101]

...roundish, near-round, oval, pear, button, rondelle ...

Right... those are symmetrical baroques (one axis of symmetry). And the types seem - to me - best suited for nucleated pearls where 'baroque' means some distortion close to the spherical shape of the nucleus. [not that they appear only on nucleated pearls, of course]

How about these below - would you have a special word for the shape?

 

[knotty panda]

If they were smaller, they'd be nuggets. And smaller still, pebbles. But those honkers? Free-form baroque. I don't see where a bead should define a shape. What about you? Just thinking here, the Baroda Pearls. Those are shaped as such above, but called baroque, if I recall properly.

 

[Valeria101]

I don't see where a bead should define a shape.

Oh, not define... just make more likely. The reasoning being that you need allot more nacre around a round bead to make a free form shape then a near-round, so thin-skinned nucleated pearls would be round or near-round way more frequently than natural or tissue-nucleated pearls are.

'Nugget' sounds suggestive. I have't used it for large pearls until now but that'll change.


Re. Baroda - they look round to me, but you know what? the press release from Chrities doesn't call the shape anything at all (LINK). Silly.

 

[knotty panda]

I saw some kind of chunky naturals. Now where was that. In my dreams, maybe?

 

[jerin]

To get from round to baroque, you go through roundish, near-round, oval, pear, button, rondelle -- what did I miss? Do any of these describe what you are seeing?

Knotty,

a couple more: potatoe shaped ones, bread shaped (longish and oval form), off round (what is the difference between near round and off round)? Anyway every shape that ist not round is in general called baroque, the large "nuggets" are often called free form baroque...

 

[pattye]

A couple things to consider--

As Ana sez, tissue-nucleated pearls (fw) will be slightly less round even in the highest quality than bead nucleated. So I think the near round and off round are often used for them.

I have heard Joel Schechter pres of Honora pearls frequently refer to large 10-13mm pearls as nugget or potato (or baroque). It seems generally helpful to have those descriptions especially when one doesn't have the strand in hand to compare or observe, or the photos are poor.

Some of the Chinese call a fat button a "bread shape".

Guess the vocab is evolving even as the pearls are!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[knotty panda]

Let this be a lesson, never post before coffee. How could I forget potato! Duh!

As far as rounds go, you have round, roundish, near round, off round, then potato in that order. Potato is not oval. What is the difference? Very slight and since there's no standard, if buying online, you have to lend yourself to the vendor's keen eye. If you have a temporary strand in front of you, lay it out straight on a table or counter in front of you and roll it back and forth with using the palm of your hands. If the pearls are round, the pearls will be uniform. If they aren't round, you'll see the variation in size and shape more readily.

But we're moving from the baroque question.

P.S. I never heard of bread shape until a couple of months ago. So they must be adding new descriptions as we speak.

 

[Caitlin]

I missed rice shaped in the above choices. That refers to a symetrical elongated pearl that tapes on both ends.
Then there is the tiny rice krispie shape too- the original Chinese freshwater pearl. They are oblong with indentations on the surface.

Just for fun, here is the shot of the Baroda necklace that went out in the press releases

 

[pattye]

Hummm-

I've never heard "roundish" before in pearl terminology, it somehow sounds pretty vague to me. Would that be way off round but no flat sides??????

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

 

[knotty panda]

No, it's between round and near round. As close as you can get to round but not an 8-way roller.

 

[Valeria101]

Free form baroque is used for very contorted ones too...

But you know what.. these are only commercial names. Don't even have to have a definition, to be used consistently... to mean anything.

I am quite astounded by the haze around 'round' - obviously the standard for various types is not the same. It feels infuriating when naturals are dissed for being 'baroque' because they do not look like MOP beads. Fine tissue nucleated and the rare round keshi suffer the same.

Isn't there are rule for roundness of pearls? Something like GIA's rule defining what is a 'round' brilliant: one with difference less then 5% between the largest and smallest diameter. I need to squint for the 5% - it is a harsh rule.

Anyone knows where the idea of 'eight way rollers' originate?

 

[pearlpunk]

let's say we want to compare these:
http://www.pearlparadise.com/temp5.htm

and these:
https://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15782&postcount=64

how do we say to merchants which we want other than by cutting and pasting pictures...? what if we do not have any pics...? this is what i mean. because without sueki's picture, i would have no idea how to communicate these shapes. i tried describing them over the email, and boy was that a mission, several emails back and forth just to confirm that we were talking about the same thing...

valeria! those are beautiful irregular fat roundish baroques! (baroque?) i like those! how do you ask merchants if they have them? if we say "baroque" they will come up with a variety of shapes and it would be many emails before you may or may not get the answer.

 

[jerin]

Anyone knows where the idea of 'eight way rollers' originate?

Ana,
the first time I came across this definition was in "The story of pearls" by Shohei Shirai and I quote:

"A perfectly round pearl will roll smoothly and evenly. It is also possible to roll one across a flat board. Once again, the perfectly round jewel will perform without a stop, whereas the irregularly shaped one will wobble, pause in its course, and finally halt. In the trade, a perfectly round pearl is called an eight-way roller (happo korogashi) because it will roll smoothly in all directions".

Jeremy too has mentioned this term in some post, I do not remember when or where though. It ought to be in the Akoya section, I believe.

 

[knotty panda]

I got 8-way from Z.

Pearlpunk: "Fat, chunky, baroques." If I said phat, we'd have hip-hop baroques. Actually, when you first started this thread, the first thing that popped into my mind was that style maven, Sueki.

Something else that might help is MM size. Give an approximation of what size pearls you want. I know that's hard to do when you first start working with sizes. And what you initially set out for, the 12MM, is still in the design drawer (for the now), but taking some time and learning sizes helps alot when doing online purchasing.

 

[pearlpunk]

thanks guys! i am now pottering around designing my next piece. i am hunting for vintage clasps at the moment and thinking of a princess length three strands, or even a five-strand!!! so, looks like i have to hunt for more baroques since i do not like small pearls and i can't afford the large round ones if i need that many!

 

[Valeria101]

Nearly forgot about this one...

The website of the Stuller & Paspaley venture has a neat classification of shapes with the respective lingo. 'Fashion', 'Fine', and 'Statement' are their commercial categories, not standard classification. The rest seem to be common terms understood everywhere. Heard many others related to the miriad shapes of freshwater pearls (rice, potato, petal, cloud, bud, fireball, fancy shapes, etc.), but none very consistently used so not as useful for asking around.


Not sure about 'double pearls'... whether this is used much, but the term is self explanatory anyway. A recent thread with a natural example reminded the obscure pearl-word. Nucleted freshwater seem rather common in doubles, but I've never seen them called that.

Wonder what on Earth happens in there to make these doubles!

Picture Source


'Guess this one below is still called 'baroque' and not a 'triple pearl' !

Just for fun:

Picture Source


PS: I kept posting things from this seller, so it may be high time for a disclaimer. No, I don't have anything to do with them, just follow the listings because of the neat oddities that keep appearing there in precise images...

 

[Valeria101]

Ana,
the first time I came across this definition was in "The story of pearls" by Shohei Shirai

Aha! Thanks ... for the explanation and the hint to an entire pearl library by the same author!