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Thread: Yokota Pearls

  1. #31
    Caitlin's Avatar
    Caitlin is offline Rare Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    Wendy, that was a lot of work! and Pragmatically, what you say is correct.

    However.

    This is how Pearl-Guide defines hanadama:

    hanadama: Highest quality portion of a cultured akoya pearl harvest.

    This is how Pearl Paradise defines hanadama:

    Hanadama Akoya pearls are the finest akoya pearls produced in the world today. After every pearl harvest in Japan, the pearls are separated into graded lots to be sold direct to processing factories or at live auctions. Of the separated lots, there is always one lot that is treated differently - these pearls are referred to in Japanese as hanadama akoya pearls. They are the pearls selected from the harvest due to their remarkable luster, surface and overall quality. These pearls are handled and sold as a separate product.

    Much like diamond certification in the United States, before a strand or pair of hanadama akoya pearls can be marketed as hanadama, they must first go through laboratory testing in Japan. The most respected laboratory that conducts this test is known as the Pearl Science Laboratory of Japan. At the laboratory, technicians examine and grade the average nacre thickness, and they evaluate the luster and surface quality. A base minimum of excellence in each category is required to achieve the grading level of hanadama.
    -----
    OK So we have a situation as if someone came over here and asked us about A, AA, and AAA gradings, stating that Ebay sellers use AAAAA+++++, so aren't their pearls better?



    The answer is there is no legal standard for any grade of pearl, including hanadama, so it it up to the interpreter to define these grades for themselves.
    Many reputable pearl sellers describe their akoya pearls from A-AAA and define what each grade means somewhere on their website. And the better sellers have higher, not lesser definition for the grades.


    Originally, the definition of hanadama was reserved for the cream of the AAA grade, and is still how hanadama is defined on this site and on Pearl Pearl Paradise's site, so you will never get a grade AA pearl with a hanadama certificate from many sellers, though apparently you can from some others. Does that mean the definition of "Hanadama" includes the lower grades? Of course, not!

    Just because some merchants call inferior grades AAA or AA+ or whatever, does not mean much unless you know their definition of the grade. Many sellers cheat on these grades or exploit them for sales. However, I would hold in disregard any seller that tries to sell you less than the top half of the AAA harvest as hanadama. They are using a word that was defined as the highest quality and are applying it to lesser qualities. Does that mean no one should use and define hanadama as the best, anymore?

    No more than people should quit using the A-AAA scheme because some eBay sellers degrade their qualities in their own wares so as to seem as good as the wares of people who apply those grades. Just because one can get Hanadama certificates for any grade, apparently, as one can one get A-AAAAA in some schemes does not mean the definition has changed.

    It means beware of sellers who do not hold to this standard. So what if some people grade those standards to make their own wares seem better? That does not make it correct or right.

    It means look at how dealers define their grades and choose someone that has clear definitions and sticks by them.


    What really gets me about this conversation is, I detest akoya pearls for many reasons. I detest most of the schlock that is sold out there because akoyas went through a stage where minimal nacre was fine and many still push thin skinned akoyas. Akoyas are barely barely dipped in the oyster, compared to any other type of cultured pearls. I will never wear one, I will never buy one. I will never sell one. I think they are the first gropings in pearl cultivation and all the standards have slipped, since my Mother in Law bought her first strand in the 1930's. I vastly prefer the solid nacre of the freshwater pearl and keshi from SS and Tahitians. The one exception I have to make is for cultured Sea of Cortez pearls. And their quality is strictly controlled by the owners.

    So to sum up. Anyone who sells less than the top half of the AAA harvest as a hanadama is lowering the standard, adulterating it, but just because some do that is not reason to change the definition to meet the lower standards. It also means that people who want proof they have a minimum of .4 nacre, can get it, as pathetic as 4mm is.







    Last edited by Caitlin; 07-12-2012 at 09:17 PM. Reason: correcting a fact about thickness

  2. #32
    pearlescence is offline purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    Caitlin, as you know, I don't stock akoya.
    The problem, as I perceive it, is that there is no objective assessmnt criteria standard for pearls. While some of us possibly underplay grades and attempt to moderate eachothers gradings (and I was very pleased that my gradings were spot on against Jeremy's last year) even with a non profit there is a certain impetus to keep the money coming in. Fail too many strands which just teeter on one side of the line or the other and pretty soon your revenue goes down and you're out of business. That is, to some extent, what has happened in education here in the UK. Different exam setting bodies for schools, and universities have managed to drive down standards by trying very hard not to fail students and to award the highest grades. Some institutions have managed to hold to a standard (my own university faculty used to award one first a year max, to someone totally outstanding, while others dole out firsts to half a cohort. The problem is that the universities are ranked partly on how many firsts are awarded..so, pressure to award firsts and every year the grade bands go up by one or two marks.
    Until the pearl industry manages to create some objective rather than subjective criteria for grading this will always be a problem. However, the forum can do a small part by rubbishing as a nonsense anyone who claims their pearls are something more than AAA. And what is museum grade? Another hyperbole!

  3. #33
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    GemGeek is offline Author & Pearl Subversive Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    Other labs may certify Hanadama strands, and they may do so correctly according to the parameters, but Japan Pearl Science Laboratory is recognized as definitive.

    My earrings from PP are certified Hanadamas and they are 0.4 mm. My necklace from PP is 0.55 mm. Hanadama certification requires a minimum of 0.4 mm thickness. That is a fact.
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  4. #34
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    GIA pearl reports do not assign grades. If you order a classification report, they will evalutate the luster from excellent to poor, the surface from clean to heavily spotted and the matching from excellent to poor. (Smart of them not to get involved in letter grades on pearls.)

    Identification Reports (PIDT) specify the quantity, weight, size, shape, color, origin (natural or cultured and type of nucleation), mollusk (if determinable), environment (saltwater or freshwater), and any detectable treatments.
    Classification Reports (PR) include all of the Identification Report information as well as classifications for luster, surface and matching (if applicable).

    Sample indentification report: http://www.gia.edu/lab-reports-servi...ion-report.pdf
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  5. #35
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    Caitlin is offline Rare Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    OK I got that. I did not look it up before I spouted. I have a memory of some.6+, though.

    Still, I don't like them and I know you can't even drill a pearl that thin. .4mm. I have some abalone pearls that tiny from antz and there is no electric drill small enough to drill them. I have been told- only in India -with a hand bow. The only akoya necklace I like the looks of is Geek's untreated one- which Yakota appeared to poo poo as untreated.

    Until there are world standards, there is a group of people who will not call a AA pearl an AAA nor call less than an AAA, hanadama. Stick with those people, not the ones who redefine grades to suit their own agendas.

    Hey Wendy, I did not realize you don't sell akoyas.

    Apparently the akoya market is a much bigger racket than I had ever supposed. LOL. Buy akoyas at your own risk. You never know how thin that nacre is without an xray.

  6. #36
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    I meant 4 mm nacre thickness on the bead at any one point.
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  7. #37
    Caitlin's Avatar
    Caitlin is offline Rare Pearl Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    I know. I was commenting on how thin that actually is- and I compared it to an actual pearl that size.

    IMO akoya is not about thick nacre. Even at its thickest, it is as thin as possible without blinking. And anything over that is practically hanadama. Even if people were not abusing the terms.

    The professional measure is the way the GIA does it and that is fairly mysterious to most buyers, so at last look, most reputable sellers are still selling the various grades as they define them and watching others abuse that unwritten convention.

    If Yakota is defining subtle grades within the hanadama range, I missed that. Though his example is a beautiful necklace, it is obviously not what most would call AA grade. It is higher than that, or the photos are enhanced. And the price is worthy of Mikimoto himself.

    Bottom line, that is what branding is about and Miki and Hanadama are both just attempts to brand. Apparently the hanadama brand has been debased by some.

    I doubt very many akoyas will withstand 400 years of being passed down and worn. They are now a disposable commodity with built-in obsolescence- pretend pearls for a disposable age. I learned that Hanadamas were the among best of the lot. And that is still how I define them, in spite of there being other camps who define them differently.
    Last edited by Caitlin; 07-12-2012 at 08:49 PM.

  8. #38
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    I agree, Caitlin, except that Hanadama is not a brand, but a classification that has a distinct measure. So if people are throwing around the term Hanadama for pearls that would not pass the evaluation, then shame on them. It never ceases to amaze me how far some sellers will go to make a buck.
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  9. #39
    Amanda is offline First-graft Pearl Senior Guide Member
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    I looked at that link - there really are a lot of people around with more money than sense!

  10. #40
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    The photo is disappointing for the dollar amount, for sure.
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  11. #41
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    I tried on a 23k GBP Mikis once, 7-7.5mm, supposedly their top grade, and thought anyone who would part his/her money for it has more money than sense.

    Unless I win the lottery, or PP allows me to buy an inch of pearls at a time every month for the next 2 years, then a 9mm+ Hanadama is out of reach for me.

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  12. #42
    pearlescence is offline purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert
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    With Tiffany's, as with Mikimoto, you are paying a huge premium for the brand (and all the adverts in Vogue etc)(and remember that to get your product into the editorial pages and onto a model in Vogue and similar you have to have spent a huge amount on advertising)

  13. #43
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    Honey and Lemon and Gem Geek. Thank you. I do love them. Here are a couple more photos that I have not shared previously. While pearls are notoriously difficult to photograph, I think some of these photos show the orient and luster of this strand. Maybe in future I can take better photos. As to Caitlin's "blow them out of the water" comment, I just don't understand how she can compare two strands of akoyas without having them 'in hand'.

    And she does this again here:

    "Jeweljunke,

    Nice pearls, almost flawless to the eye, but look up Gem Geek's untreated hanadama thread. The difference leaves yours, as pretty as it is, in the dust. It is so luminous and has so deep a play of orient, it is visible in photos.

    Yours is a typical bleached AAA akoya, and there is nothing wrong with them, they are high quality, but what orient there was, was been destroyed by the bleach, though the ball bearing luster remains."

    Now, don't get me wrong. I like and respect Caitlin, always have, but it is obvious she is not an akoya lover, so maybe she should not judge. (I know...this has nothing to do with the topic of Hanadama...)
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  14. #44

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    Jeweljunke,

    When you bought that strand how did it work (shipping, billing etc), what "grade" was it within Yokota's system?

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    Hi Honey and Lemon. I will send you a private message.

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