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  1. #16
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    I don't know what the FTC or JVC are. How do they enforce them? If you measure your pearls for sale differently will you be sent to prison?
    In the UK I suspect that the CIBJO guidance might be cited in court in a trading standards prosecution for breach of EU trading laws on description or such but the court would be looking at how the pearls differed from the given description. I have never heard of a case where this was the sole basis for a prosecution or, indeed a civil action for damages.
    CIBJO is not even something you can join, thereby placing yourself voluntarily under their rules. If you want to tweet you have to sign up and then abide by Twitter's rules or they throw you off.
    The British Pearl Association was a good attempt at a national body to supervise standards and ethics (you had to provide detailed references to become a full member) but unfortunately its founder has had to resign due to illness and the new people running it have subsumed it into their organisation and it has swiftly turned into something which, as far as I can make out, sells sma jewellery business insurance. Which is a huge shame

  2. #17
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    Re size. I had a new customer who wanted small pearls for bridal stuff. She wanted - say 5mm off rounds with a decent lustre. I supplied same. They were too big. Eventually she sent a sample and her previous 5mm pearls from another supplier were 3.8mm tops. I told her I had these and sent the link. She refused to buy 3.8mm pearls as her pearls were 5mm. Even when I sent a photo of her pearls in my calipers with the reading, no, somehow I was trying to cheat her (note the pearls were the same price!)

  3. #18
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    I don't know what the FTC or JVC are. How do they enforce them? If you measure your pearls for sale differently will you be sent to prison?
    In the UK I suspect that the CIBJO guidance might be cited in court in a trading standards prosecution for breach of EU trading laws on description or such but the court would be looking at how the pearls differed from the given description. I have never heard of a case where this was the sole basis for a prosecution or, indeed a civil action for damages.
    CIBJO is not even something you can join, thereby placing yourself voluntarily under their rules. If you want to tweet you have to sign up and then abide by Twitter's rules or they throw you off.
    The British Pearl Association was a good attempt at a national body to supervise standards and ethics (you had to provide detailed references to become a full member) but unfortunately its founder has had to resign due to illness and the new people running it have subsumed it into their organisation and it has swiftly turned into something which, as far as I can make out, sells sma jewellery business insurance. Which is a huge shame
    If you call a freshwater pearl akoya will you be sent to prison? Probably not, but you're still breaking the law.

    These are the standards used by all gemological organizations. It's the proper way to measure pearls. Nobody forces you to do it, but if you're a professional, you follow it.

    Yes, you can join CIBJO. There are delegates from every member country and there are private delegates who can join and vote. It is not some small local organization. It's the World Jewellery Organization that controls laws related to disclosure of all sorts of gems.

    CIBJO is the current reason things like use of the word "cultured" before pearls is enforced.

  4. #19
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    I never said CIBJO was a small local organisation. Of course I comply as a professional. But as a former lawyer I simply questioned and question again the use of 'laws' instead of 'rules' or 'guidance'
    You mention the use of the word 'cultured' before pearls..but if we slavishly followed this law/rule/whatever, our websites would be cluttered and unreadable. So we don't use it every time we write the word 'pearl'
    And, no, if you depart from CIBJO rules you won't go to prison in the UK - the pearl party people prove that all the time unfortunately

  5. #20
    Pearl Enthusiast Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Pearl Dreams's Avatar
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    As an aside, on shrinking pearl sizes, this old thread from 2008 is interesting:

    http://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/sho...ng-in-The-Loop

  6. #21
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    So we don't use it every time we write the word 'pearl'
    And, no, if you depart from CIBJO rules you won't go to prison in the UK - the pearl party people prove that all the time unfortunately
    You are liable for following those rules. You won't go to jail, but if you do get sued, the courts typically rely on the Blue Books from CIBJO. They are the governing world body for the jewelry industry. The pearl commission meets once per year, after a year of debates via email, and makes amendments to the book.

  7. #22
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    Noticed my contribution there on strand length - which has increased. But still short for most european necks

  8. #23
    Pearl Enthusiast Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Pearl Dreams's Avatar
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    Okay Wendy, you have me curious-- short for most European necks? Do Europeans have thicker necks LOL?
    Or are you saying Europeans like longer strands for some other reason?

  9. #24
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jshepherd View Post
    You are liable for following those rules. You won't go to jail, but if you do get sued, the courts typically rely on the Blue Books from CIBJO. They are the governing world body for the jewelry industry. The pearl commission meets once per year, after a year of debates via email, and makes amendments to the book.
    That may be so in the US, but not here.

  10. #25
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    That may be so in the US, but not here.
    No, it's also the case in the UK. It's also the case in Germany. The national associations of the UK who are voting members are The National Association of Jewelers and Gem-A Gemmological Association. Commercial voting members in the UK include the Birmingham Assay Office, IJL, Gemfields, DeBeers UK, The Platinum Guild and several others. All of the commercial voting members have applied and joined and have done so in order to take part and exert influence on the different commissions. It is something you can join, and I believe it's 10,000 Euro per year.

    You may be unaware because CIBJO doesn't put a tremendous amount of attention or resources to the cultured pearl industry, but they do with the diamond, coral, other gemstones and (strangely) the natural pearl categories. Labs such as SSEF (you're probably familiar with this European one) and GIA all rely on it, which is why members of those organizations are on the steering committees for nearly all types of gemstones.

  11. #26
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    I know what they do and they do it very well.
    I was replying to your comment that the blue book would be cited in court here. I checked all my legal resources and it never has in a pearl case. (civil or criminal)
    To be clear because we seem to be misunderstanding eachother. I have no problem with what CIBJO does, and it does it very well and I have no problem with following the standards.
    The lawyer in me does however point out that the standards are vague - no requirement for measurement in mm and to what decimal place for example. Plus the stipulation that measurements should all be rounded down when normal scientific practice is to round up or down from 0.5. This would produce the anomaly that if you measure just in mm a 7.9mm pearl would be 7mm, right along with an exactly 7mm one.
    The drafting is not as precise as perhaps it should or could be.

  12. #27
    Super Moderator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert jshepherd's Avatar
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    I linked to a court case in Germany - an important one that was pivotal for the cultured pearl industry. I don't know whether any civil or criminal cases might have happened in UK. I am not aware of any of them here either. If the case were to happen, however, they would use the rules of the Blue Book to settle the dispute.

    The size rule is in place specifically because so many people give inaccurate measurements, such as calling a 7-8 mm strand 8.0 mm. That used to be a big problem. The current problem is describing full mm increments when they aren't - like 6.5-7.5 mm.

  13. #28
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    Interesting, thanks for sharing the Law.
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  14. #29
    Administrator Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert Kevin Canning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pearlescence View Post
    I don't know what the FTC or JVC are.
    Friendly advice... If you're selling in the USA, I'd make myself aware of the FTC and JVC.

    You know the old adage about ignorance of the law... Be careful.
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  15. #30
    purveyor of pearls Senior Pearl-Guide.com Pearl Expert pearlescence's Avatar
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    I am very careful about law..that's why I have a masters degree in law and used to teach post graduate law at various universities Kevin
    Friendly advice back...how are you on the The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations, Do you know what TS is?
    How about the The Dangerous Substances and preparations (Nickel) (Safety) regulations 2005 Or the Registration, Evaluation, Authorisation and Restriction of Chemicals Directive 2006?
    The Hallmarking Acts....
    Does your website conform to EU law?

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