[effisk]

Hi all,

here's a link to a PDF file describing an attempt at xenografting between L. marginalis and H. cumingii.

http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/sep252003/727.pdf

[jshepherd]

I bet Zeide read that report before flying into her Heilonjiang fantasy. I am surprised she did not offer it up as proof...

[effisk]

Originally Posted by jshepherd

I am surprised she did not offer it up as proof...

I had the same thought. It's pretty much the only document on the subject on the internet.

[Slraep]

Hi Effisk,

Those two molluscs are freshwater mussel to freshwater mussel, if I am not mistaken. That has been done. The Zeide transgrafts were suppose to be saltwater(p. maxima) to freshwater mussel, which has never been done to date.

Slraep

[hacostas]

there is another study published in the peer reviewed journal "Aquaculture International" published by Springer
the reference is:

Panha, S., Kosavititkul, P., 1997. Mantle transplantation in freshwater pearl mussels in Thailand. Aquaculture International 5, 267-276.

They studied xenografts and allografts in the species Hyriopsis myersiana, H. desowitzi and Chamberlania hainesiana

Hector Acosta-Salmon

[Caitlin]

Hi Hector
Thanks for that reference. That sounds like a journal that would be available at a unversity library. Probably not the U of AZ, though. Maybe the Pearl Guide Forum can acquire it?

[effisk]

Originally Posted by Slraep

Hi Effisk,

Those two molluscs are freshwater to freshwater, if I am not mistaken.

that's correct.

Does the Strack book mention any of the two? (fw 2 sw or fw to fw?).

I haven't found anything else about xenogenic implantation online, and that's the closest you can get to what zeide mentioned.

[effisk]

Originally Posted by Caitlin Williams

Hi Hector
Thanks for that reference. That sounds like a journal that would be available at a unversity library. Probably not the U of AZ, though. Maybe the Pearl Guide Forum can acquire it?

just found this link:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/t712257137430228/

[hacostas]

Hi Caitlin
that's the link to the article

this journal is available depending on your library subscription. I would think it's available at the U. of Arizona. I have a copy of such article that I can send you. I'm sure that's no problem with copyright issues. As long as it is not openly published

Hector

[Slraep]

Hi Effisk,

Although i do not own the Strack book yet, I believe that it does have references to experiments in xenografting from freshwater mussel to freshwater mussel, which were done at Lake Biwa. If you can find anything on transgrafting from a saltwater mollusc to a freshwater mussel species, I will be astounded.

Slraep

[jshepherd]

Hi Hector,

Is there any research on salt to fresh or fresh to salt? Has it been attempted.

[hacostas]

Hi Jeremy
Not that I know of. I've never come across any literature on xenotransplants between marine and freshwater species. In fact literature on xenotransplants is extremely limited. Here is another article that I don't have or have seen. That journal (Venus) has proven quite hard to find:

Wada, K. (1989) Allograft and xenograft mantle transplantation in freshwater pearl mussels. Venus 48(3), 174–190.

I think this is a great subject for a PhD student. quite risky if you find out that it is not possible and you end up with all negative results. However if you can find a particular donor and recipient, then we're talking.

Hector

[Valeria101]

Just curious... what could be a desirable target of such research ? Achieving different and/or controlled colors sounds like the one thing achievable, while quantity and size are most in demand.

[hacostas]

Originally Posted by Valeria101

Just curious... what could be a desirable target of such research ? Achieving different and/or controlled colors sounds like the one thing achievable, while quantity and size are most in demand.

Well, I’m not sure I understand the question. Desirable target, as in who would be the end user of such research? Or what would be the hypothetical (as in ‘desired’) outcome?

There is biological significance in this research. I think whoever does this, will prove (or disprove) the feasibility of xenotransplants between different marine and freshwater species. Then, after that, ‘the world is your [pearl] oyster’… whether it works or not, then you move in the next direction.
The ‘worst’ that can happen is that it doesn’t work at all. There are so many levels of ‘success’ that I would say the probability of total failure is low.

For example, in that article that I mentioned before (Panha and Kosavititkul, 1997), they used three species, all freshwater, (Hyriopsis myersiana (Hm), H. desowitzi (Hd) and C. hainesiana (C)), and they obtained the following results of Allografts and Xenografts.


Donor, Recipient, Survival rate of grafts (%)

Hm, Hm, 96
C, Hm, 94
Hd, Hm, 83.9
Hd, Hd, 18.5
C, Hd, 0
Hm, Hd, 0
C, C, 97
Hm, C, 85.5
Hd, C, 26.2

(I wanted this to look like a table)

If you see, some of the xenografts showed better success than allografts. Also, some xenografts only ‘worked’ in one direction.

If Marine to Freshwater to Marine xenotransplants work, then you evaluate the success rate and the quality of the product you get. Then you can evaluate how profitable this would be.

The limit is your imagination, you could use mantle from different species of freshwater mussels to produce large -freswater looking?-cultured pearls in, for example Pinctada maxima.
What about grafting two pieces of tissue, one of each species, in the same incision… double colored pearl? Who knows… Someone will do it one day. I just hope they publish it.

I hope in some of all this I answered to your question
Hector

[Valeria101]

Originally Posted by hacostas

If Marine to Freshwater to Marine xenotransplants work, then you evaluate the success rate and the quality of the product you get. Then you can evaluate how profitable this would be.

Sorry for the late followup... I missed posting completely for a while. Thank you for the detailed and precise answer! I had no idea that such data as you cite even exist. My curiosity was more about the economic side - if such high-tech manipulation of pearls might have some commercial niche, in your opinion. Clearly, this would be either a matter of guessing casually (on a thread like this - what else?) or serious business research if someone means it. 'Wouldn't get my hopes that high for finding published business research 'Been there, done that...

Originally Posted by hacostas

The limit is your imagination [...] What about grafting two pieces of tissue, one of each species, in the same incision… double colored pearl? Who knows… Someone will do it one day. I just hope they publish it.

Just for fun:



This one was not intended, of course (the freak pearl was offered by one of the occasional posters here). Just Nature's proof that the unusual experiment you happened to imagine cannot be that far fetched, however extravagant! Of course, I can't know what process formed this pearl for sure, but it does look like two pearl sacks prone to opposite colors merged over a single nucleus, what else ?