[JBLOGGS]

Hello, this is my first posting here. I find this forum very informative and helpful.

I am heading to china this summer. I will be going to Guangzhou and also intend to get to Zhuji. Here are my questions:

1. What is the best way to carry your money in china?...I will be going with around $20k. Do you change all to the local currency, go with dollars (cash) or travellers cheque?

2. In Zhuji, do you also bargain at the factories? Are the factories close to the market? Where do you find the factories once you get to the train station? I intend going by train from Shanghai or is there a better way?

3. What is the best way to ship...via FEDEX? or via shipping agents (where can I find them in Zhuji)?

4. Which is better.....shopping at the factories or at the market?

Thanks a lot.

Joe.

[jshepherd]

I would suggest taking the train to Hangzhou and then taking a taxi from there to Zhuji. If you need the comforts of a larger city, you can stay in Zhuji City. If you are only going for the pearls, you can stay in Shanxiahu. There is a decent hotel about 10 minutes from the market called The Hailiang Hotel.

1. What is the best way to carry your money in china?...I will be going with around $20k. Do you change all to the local currency, go with dollars (cash) or travellers cheque?

Skip the cheques. Otherwise you will spend half the trip trying to cash them, and get killed on the exchange. Cash is fine, although not as necessary as it once was. But if it is your first time, cash will suit you best. Because you are only taking around $20k, you should be fine. You can use US dollar, and you will probably do better with it if you are not used to dealing in RMB. But I suggest changing around a thousand at the airport in Shanghai anyway.

2. In Zhuji, do you also bargain at the factories? Are the factories close to the market?

You bargain everywhere. Factories are no different. If you do not bargain, or if you do not bargain well, you may as well buy your pearls on eBay. You will not get any real deals. You MUST know what you are bargaining over, and what prices should be. Otherwise only buy one thing from each company, or they will get you on all successive pieces.

There are probably 100 factories within a 2 minute walk of the main market. You really cannot miss them. But don't just show up without an invitation. Go to the market first, and deal with a stall on the wall, not the open air atrium. These are run by factories.

3. What is the best way to ship...via FEDEX? or via shipping agents (where can I find them in Zhuji)?

Every factory can ship for you. Just be sure to wrap and sign your package. If you are there for a couple of days you can watch your package go out. FedEx is fine for higher-end pieces. If you are buying beading-grade ($15-$100 per kilo), use the low-price per kilo shipping method that they suggest. This takes a few weeks, but costs very little.

4. Which is better.....shopping at the factories or at the market?

This depends on you. What you are buying, and how well you buy. You can get great deals at the market, and you can get ripped off at any factory. I suggest just staying away from the big ones if you want a deal. The biggest players there sell through Hong Kong and they want HK prices in Zhuji. The only large one in the market that I think is fair is Pure Pearl.

Funny story about Pure Pearl... They have been trying to register the name in the States for the longest time. They cannot because of our very own Amanda Raab from PurePearls.com. They put a lot into the name before realizing they could not use it. This is the same company as the Shanxiahu Pearl Company.

Hi Joe,

Just a short question: do you speak chinese?
Or are you travelling with a guide?

It's very hard to move around that area using english.

Sheila

[Mandy]

Jeremy most definitely can speak (and write!) Chinese He has posted a few videos on YouTube of him bargaining and most of it, if not all, of it is in Chinese. Also in his signature you can find a link to a Chinese Business Blog here: http://journals.aol.com/jeremypsheph...remy-shepherd/ to see it if you'd like.

[Raisondetre]

I think Sheila was referring to Joe (original poster). But yeah, Jeremy's language skills are very impressive!

[Mandy]

D'oh! I thought she typed Jeremy instead x.x My bad!

[Raisondetre]

I think the blog entry about the misinformation was just hilarious! Just makes you wonder how much stuff you can believe, especially those about celebrities!

[JBLOGGS]

Jeremy, Thank you so much for all the info. I am really grateful.

I don't speak chinese but I do speak calculator! Do you have to get an interpreter or guide or sign language can also do the trick?

Joe.

Zhuji is pretty middle-of-nowhere, and I would recommend travelling with a chinese speaking person.
It will save you a lot of time travelling around, helps you in emergencies and prevents misunderstandings.
When negotiating speaking 'calculator' is fine.

Sheila

[jshepherd]

Calculator is a language everyone understands there

If you can get there on your own, you will do fine from that point. It would definitely save you hassle and time to have someone with you that knew the language or route. Otherwise you are going to be playing sign language and calculator with the taxi driver. If you look for someone, just be sure they are not connected to the pearl sellers of Zhuji or you just paid at least 10% extra for their effort.

Another idea may be to map your entire trip out in English, build a sort of bullet point list, get it translated, and travel by pointing.

[JBLOGGS]

Thanks a lot Jeremy.

2 more question for you:

1. Where exactly can I get Akoya Pearls, Tahitian Pearls & South Sea Pearls either in China, HK or wherever for wholesale or near wholesale price?

2. Where can I get 14Kt & 18kt Gold findings/Clasps here or abroad?

Regards,

Joe.

[Raisondetre]

I'm just wondering why you're so bent on getting SS and Tahitians in China - you are unlikely to get a good deal even wholesale. Zhuji is for freshwater, Guangxi Beihai and the area is for Akoya. There is a wholesale pearl market in Liwan Plaza in Guangzhou which has both Akoya and freshies, but if you're going to get stuff that won't give you a good deal you might as well skip Zhuji altogether and go to just Guangzhou and HK which are more accessible. It's just not worth making the trip on train from Guangzhou to the middle of Zhejiang with a calculator if you are going to get ripped off in other places, thereby negating the savings. You will almost definitely get ripped off for SS and Tahitians - imported materials are very expensive in China.

[JBLOGGS]

Hello, Thanks for your reply. I don't intend getting Tahitian and S/S pearls from china. I am trying to put together a plan of how I can get what I need and in order to do this, I need to know where the products are. China trip is definitely for freshwater and if possible, Akoya. Thereafter, I can set out for the other stuff.

Regards,

Joe.

[Raisondetre]

I'm just wondering what scale of business it is that you do. For an entry level business, the costs associated with carrying a full inventory might be prohibitory at present. It is nearly always cheaper to get things at source, but there is a catch. You can get it only in huge quantities. Otherwise it's rarely worth the effort. Jeremy sources straight from farms and cuts out the middleman. Golden South Seas are produced in Indonesia and the Phillipines, white SSs in Australia (Broome predominantly), Tahitians in Tahiti, you get the picture. There are also more obscure sources for the exotics like the one Carolyn Ehret carries - she travels all around the world and sells unique pieces at high prices in order to cover the costs. Of course, her prices would still be cheaper than full retail for exotics.

You don't seem to have a target market in mind - are you doing niche or mass market? Should you be just concentrating on one particular line? You also have to note China doesn't produce big Akoyas with much success. If you want a full-line of Akoyas you will need to source in Japan as well, which Jeremy also does. You will get a potpourri of everything - HK is an international pearl hub but there won't be much in terms of savings unless you are running out of regular stock in an established business and am trying to keep customers happy. It's not the best for a long-term solution.

I think most of the vendors here will also sell you hanks - Jeremy mentioned that in another thread. It might be more cost-effective for you to go that way until you have tested the market.

If you do want to go China/HK isn't a bad idea, but I don't think you really need to go all the way to Zhuji for small quantities. It really is in the middle of nowhere.

[jshepherd]

Wow Raison d'être! You really have been studying up! Everything she said about the akoya, freshwater, Tahitian and South Sea is spot on.

Yes, you can get it all in Hong Kong. This is a much safer way to go, for the most part. This is where the large majority of US wholesalers get their Chinese pearls. This includes nearly all the sellers at the Tucson and Vegas shows, and beading stores around the country. Very few of them actually venture into China. This may change after the CP&J project is finished, however. There are several reasons why this is. First and foremost is because dealing in Hong Kong is easy. Business is conducted there much like it is conducted in the Western world. This is not to say you will never get taken. I got hit very hard by a company once in Hong Kong, but for the most part, it is safe.
*see my note at the bottom of this thread!

Tahitian and South Sea pearls can be sourced in Hong Kong as well. This is actually a very good place to get them. You can get them in Japan as well, in the Kobe area. Prices are very similar for matched strands and pairs. There is not a lot of difference in that realm. Your cost will depend completely on how much you intend to spend. For strands of Tahitians, they are all priced in this range for anything of good color, luster, and light spotting - but only if you are buying a substantial amount. If you are looking for 1 or 2 strands, forget about it. You will get price marked, and that will be very similar to US average wholesale. Approximately double what you see on that page.

Discounts work like this from one big Tahitian and South Sea wholesaler that I won't mention publicly due to the nature of this post. The marked price is their wholesale price. If you buy one or two strands, this is what you pay. If you pass them at the show, see some pearls you like, this is what you pay. The next step down is 25%. You have to be a pretty big buyer to get to that level. The next step is down to 45%. If you get this you are a good, long-term customer. The final "typical" discount is 50%. You are then considered a major customer.
There is, however, one final discount that only a select few are privy to. This is a 62% discount that is a "close out only" discount. New goods are coming in, so move out the old. You may also got this discount by purchasing entire lots - or a specific production run. But you have to be able to move several hundred strands. We did this with Golden South Sea baroques last year, and it worked quite well. This is a great way to purchase, but it is not consistent. When it is available, the price is very close to production - what it would cost me, for example, to make the strands or buy the loose lots personally.

So basically what I am trying to say is that it does not necessarily matter who you buy from, it matters most "how" you buy, and how much you are ready to spend. With the aforementioned company you will not likely go below 25% until you have made several decent purchases - and decent is anywhere between $50-$100k.

Freshwater are the best, easiest game to start with. If you are starting small, you would best be suited to stay in Hong Kong. But if your heart is really set on Zhuji, do yourself a favor and sit down for a few solid days with this Website. There are about 12000 posts, as of today, so there is a lot of reading. But I cannot imagine a better way of getting prepared for that type of trip.

With akoya, be very, very, very careful. I would strongly suggest staying away until you are very knowledgeable about them. You must be able to gauge nacre depth, compare luster, and know the seller's tricks. You also need to be able to distinguish high grade pearls from over processed pearls - very difficult to do. The akoya business is probably the most difficult, and that is why so few people do it successfully. Most sellers blindly place their faith in a Japanese factory, overpay for the quality they receive, then overcharge based on a "product of Japan" label that means nothing related to actual origin.

*This is the company that "ripped me off" in Hong Kong. Not for a huge amount of money, but 5 years ago it really felt like it. They took me for about $15,000, and they are still in business. If you see "Pierre", run!

Name: Infinity Jewelry Company Limited
Address: Suite A, 13/F,
Eastern Flower Centre,
22-24 Cameron Road,
Tsim Sha Tsui, Kowloon, Hong Kong
Tel: 23670418
Fax: 852-23669148
E-Mail: pierre@infinityjew.com
Web: www(dot)infinityjew(dot)com

Pierre,
I think we may finally be even...