I would like to make up a really good story and run with it. But we're talking 2yo, 4yo and 3 month puppy all up and screaming. Mummy on business trip and no way near enough alcohol to cover me!!

Apologise on every thread.......now ya talking!

George, now you must be really appreciative when Mummy is at home, running things smoothly?

Wish I could say yes but she's the high flying corporate and I'm the full time worker and full time mummy/daddy. Still it could have been worse. the 6YO could have been screaming also. I guess there's always tonight!!

Well, George,

You gave me a first class chuckle this am!!
Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

Here's another article on the primitive mantis shrimp's eyesight.

So now they figure the creatures can also see 11-12 primary colours while we think our 3 are da bomb. Imagine what a rainbow would look like if we had multi-primary colour super vision. Too bad. Our poor and limited eyesight just cannot measure up. I think a mantis shrimp might find we are blind in comparison.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...mp-colors.html

Slraep

[Mikeyy]

Originally Posted by pattye

Well, George,

You gave me a first class chuckle this am!!
Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

Don't encourage him. We don't know why the kids are screaming.

hmmm....perhaps if i had nanny cam.........

I must say that when we were living in Indonesia, we aways found the customs to be hell. Long lines, no AC and innefficient and underpaid customs officers.

Best cure were screaming kids! They'd rush us through the diplomatic line in a flash! I always threatened to pinch them to make them cry but never did......honest!

Any vegans in the house?

Originally Posted by Slraep

And: "Do bivalves not feel pain because they lack the brain of a vertebrate?"

Slraep

I'm inclined to say 'yes' ...

Why would evolution develop the capacity for 'pain' in an animal that can't do anything about it?


It seems logical that physiological signals should be matched to the type of response they can trigger. Why would a mollusk need a continuous 'fight or flight' signal for a sloooow defence mechanism like pearl-making?


On the other hand, it is quite clear that whatever we call 'pain' is totally dependent on the nervous system: shut down that and there's no pain (anesthetics), turn on the signal only and no real stimulus is needed anymore (nerve damage, memory of pain in missing limbs or organs... that sort of horrid thing).

I'd bet that even mollusks must be getting some information from the outside world to activate their defense mechanisms. Still, it is hard to imagine what kind of signal is that, since mollusks aren't built to do either fight or flight so no such reflex is necessary and not much use for a signal similar to pain. It sounds like pain would be as necessary to them while making pearls to defend themselves, as it is to humans on a dentist chair - i.e. not useful at all. We developed solutions for useless pain in a hundred years or so of scientific phar macy, mollusks had hundreds of millions of years of evolution to develop their response to the environment. What works, works...

Besides, we've also got a bunch of slow, long-term biological defense mechanisms, but they are not associated with continuous pain (scarring on some internal organs and tissues), thank goodness. Like pearl-making, there is too much of a good thing with those too... And this is as far as my imagination goes; it seems to me that this sort of comparison is interesting only in the context we've got here (my colleague shrugged only).

[Mikeyy]

Originally Posted by Pearling Technologies

hmmm....perhaps if i had nanny cam.........

I must say that when we were living in Indonesia, we aways found the customs to be hell. Long lines, no AC and innefficient and underpaid customs officers.

Best cure were screaming kids! They'd rush us through the diplomatic line in a flash! I always threatened to pinch them to make them cry but never did......honest!

When life serves up lemons make lemonade.

Hehe. Found the "No Brain - Politicians" connection you did... I loved it!
When I was studying "Marine Invertebrates II" I think someone asked the same question regarding pain, someone else debated about how "primitive organisms" are not so...it was a good class debate:

1) Primitive Organisms are called that way because they originated very early in the Evolutionary tree. We are "Modern" because our branch (Primates) originated quite recently (Primates some 85 to 95 million years ago, Mollusks some 4,500 million years ago). But these "primitive creatures" are indeed marvelous feats of natural engineering: perfectly adapted to their surroundings.
In the case of Invertebrates that are capable of of "seeing" in polarized light or parts of the light spectrum we don't...they have both the hardware and software to do so because it is -or was- useful to their existence. We (Humans) cannot see in Infrared or UV spectrums because we don't need to (not useful for monkeys).
The best part is the ending because we learned about Stress and...

2) Mucus. Stressed mollusks produce massive amounts of mucus after being harmed or when "suffering" (they don't, ok?). They can't run nor hide and: in the Ocean nobody can hear your screams (sounds like a horror movie line, doesn't it? It's an Ocean out there!!!). So the little things pucker up, and do the next best thing: secrete loads of nice mucus. So once more a similarity between a "primitive creature" and a "highly evolved creature" (a politician): they lube it all up and turn the place into one ugly mess.

[knotty panda]

Originally Posted by CortezPearls

2) Mucus. Stressed mollusks produce massive amounts of mucus after being harmed or when "suffering" (they don't, ok?). They can't run nor hide and: in the Ocean nobody can hear your screams (sounds like a horror movie line, doesn't it? It's an Ocean out there!!!). So the little things pucker up, and do the next best thing: secrete loads of nice mucus

Oh thanks! Take all the romance out of it! BTW, nice to see you again. How's the harvest coming? We're all looking forward to pics.

Originally Posted by Valeria101

Any vegans in the house?
I'm inclined to say 'yes' ...
Why would evolution develop the capacity for 'pain' in an animal that can't do anything about it?
It seems logical that physiological signals should be matched to the type of response they can trigger. Why would a mollusk need a continuous 'fight or flight' signal for a sloooow defence mechanism like pearl-making?
On the other hand, it is quite clear that whatever we call 'pain' is totally dependent on the nervous system: shut down that and there's no pain (anesthetics), turn on the signal only and no real stimulus is needed anymore (nerve damage, memory of pain in missing limbs or organs... that sort of horrid thing).
I'd bet that even mollusks must be getting some information from the outside world to activate their defense mechanisms. Still, it is hard to imagine what kind of signal is that, since mollusks aren't built to do either fight or flight so no such reflex is necessary and not much use for a signal similar to pain. It sounds like pain would be as necessary to them while making pearls to defend themselves, as it is to humans on a dentist chair - i.e. not useful at all. We developed solutions for useless pain in a hundred years or so of scientific phar macy, mollusks had hundreds of millions of years of evolution to develop their response to the environment. What works, works...
Besides, we've also got a bunch of slow, long-term biological defense mechanisms, but they are not associated with continuous pain (scarring on some internal organs and tissues), thank goodness. Like pearl-making, there is too much of a good thing with those too... And this is as far as my imagination goes; it seems to me that this sort of comparison is interesting only in the context we've got here (my colleague shrugged only).

I could not have said it any better: you need the "hardware" (the brain, pain hormones, nervous system) to run the "software" (Program: PAIN. An application developed to make you run/flee/hide/attack the stimulus that causes DAMAGE to your body). Even if you had a more advanced Brain (such as with mammals, but excluding Politicians) your "software" can be "unistalled" or not installed at all...we all use computers here (you could not write nor read nor interact with others on this forum if you did not) but we all use different program applications depending on our NEEDS...I certainly do not have a "Election Polls" app on my PC, but maybe someone has a "Jewelry Designing" program or Photo editing software on their PC. You get the idea.

Originally Posted by knotty panda

Oh thanks! Take all the romance out of it! BTW, nice to see you again. How's the harvest coming? We're all looking forward to pics.

Harvest Officially begins: TOMORROW. As you can Imagine: I am Sleepless in Guaymas (Guaymas: Pearl Capital of North and South America ). Been more than bussy... it is about to become midnight here and it's the only moment I have: we've been very busy thanks to ----DRUM ROLL PLEASE--- some Idiotic new laws passed by -you've guessed it!!!- politicians.

We're doing just like our oysters have taught us: pucker up and secrete mucus...lots of mucus. But, I am a higher being am I not? So, I'm just waiting for my chance...

Hopefully I'll place some photos next week on a thread of its own. Keep posted!

[La Contessa]

I had to bring attention to the Florida mollusk situation.
On the news several months ago near the Suwanee River at the Gulf.
"While enjoying some steamed clams at Dave's Last Resort & Raw Bar with his wife, Leslie, George Brock suddenly bit down on something hard...which was a purple pearl. It's safe to say that the couple didn't expect anything from their $10 investment other than fresh seafood. Turns out they got much more than that: A gemologist's appraisal pegged the pearl's value at $25,000..."

[Kevin Canning]

A gemologist's appraisal pegged the pearl's value at $25,000

We've seen these optimistic appraisals before, trouble is none of them ever sells for this high an amount.