[Caitlin]

Very interesting article and I was not suprised at the conclusions drawn.

So far we have no authentiated examples of naturally occuring elephant pearls. They are so extremely rare we may never see one.

They are so rare that the demand for them is being met with manufactured carvings. These faux elephant pearls fulfill the desire for such a pearl.

Originally Posted by Caitlin Williams

So far we have no authenticated examples of naturally occurring elephant pearls. They are so extremely rare...

I wonder if these are so rare that they actually do not exist. After all, there's an entire menagerie of mythical pearls throughout the sacred legends of several Asian religious traditions - things do not need to be scientifically 'real' to be valuable, after all.

Wonder if any accounts of veterinary dentistry could weigh on the matter. Somehow, I don't have the nerve to forward such an inquiry to the relevant professional associations though ...

[sumavapersians]

Hi.
Anybody could informe me about this pearl I sent a couple of pictures yesterday? Maybe Zeide??? Please, I'd like to know a little more but no reply to my question. Waiting for your news.
Best regards,
Ignacio

[Caitlin]

I think the possibility is pretty small to nil.

So far I have not seen an authenticated case of a genuine elephant pearl. I think all the more so for the other plant and animal pearls- bezoars. They are mythical in purpose and use, but made by human hands.

That is my position and I am sticking to it.

I'd have to agree with you there, Caitlin... Some of the "pearls" that I've seen online seem to reside wholly in fantasy-land. Shall I refer to that old thread regarding so-called Coconut pearls? Lordy, how I wanted to skewer Z on that one!

Originally Posted by Ashley

I'd have to agree with you there, Caitlin... Some of the "pearls" that I've seen online seem to reside wholly in fantasy-land. Shall I refer to that old thread regarding so-called Coconut pearls? Lordy, how I wanted to skewer Z on that one!

Hi Ashley,

How fitting it is that Zeide be mentioned in a thread discussing the fantastic elephant or coconut pearls? She should definitely be lumped into the same category. She certainly has the same phony make-believe traits.

Some of these "exotic" mani are made from elephant tusk ivory and it should be noted that India and many other countries, under wildlife protection acts, forbid the sale or trade of these items(even if bogus gaja mani) without registration and permit.

Slraep

Wait a minute...

... even if not 'pearls' or anomalous elephant body parts, there seems to be a little market for the things as religious, historic or ethnographic artifacts. What could such objects have in common with the larger category of mollusk-originating pearls used for adornment rather than religious or scientific contemplation ?

Frankly, I am not 100% convinced there is no such thing. Just 99%.

[sumavapersians]

Hi Valeria.
No. It was not for you. This is the message with an erroneous web address posted for a new member as me, Pbazar:

Pearl world on elephant pearls

http://www.pearls.com/news2/pp22/elephant.pdf

Regards,
Ignacio

[sumavapersians]

Hi Caitlin.
A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist, even if they are really difficult to find out as are controlled by India or Ceylon governments as they are true national treasure.
You say my pearl is pretty small to be an elephant pearl. Ok, 20 cts is approximately 4 grams. Well, to make a true GajaMani with 108 elephant pearls could be around 432 grams but probably more as not all these rare pearls are with the same weight. So 432 gm is a nice weight to bring on the neck. If must be bigger, who could bring these necklaces???
Sorry for my English
Ignacio

[Caitlin]

Hi sumavapersians

You say my pearl is pretty small to be an elephant pearl

. Who said that?

A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist,

It is not at all clear to me that elephant pearls that occur naturally at the base of the elephant's tusk do exist. I would appreciate clarification. I would very much like to see the Indian and Ceylonese findings and laws on this.

Here is my logic: If elephant pearls occur in one out of 8 thousand elephants, (if Zeide isn't outright lying, which she probably is, it would be very hard to collect a Gaji Mani. They are rare and the competition for them would be strong. It would take even a "royal" family with wealth and connections generations to gather 108 of them, let alone matching ones...... I dare say each "pearl" would have its own provenance- especially if it is necessary to say, register them with the Gov't.

If they occur once in several thousand elephants they would be beyond reach in value for any but the most wealthy and connected. Now, with so few elephants around, it must be close to impossible to find new ones.

But there is a market for them. The market as seen in England and America at this time simply does not reflect the rarity of a true elephant pearl. There are too many of them and they are too low priced. Elephant pearls that show human workmanship are the only ones known (so far) in this market.

If a really authentic elephant pearl were to show up on the market-which is rather unlikely, it wouldn't be through an online bezoar/shamanic site. Iit would be sold through the most elite channels- say the upscale autions who insist on such things as Gov't provenance. And that would be rare, very rare I would think because someone would want it before it ever got that far.

Is there even an example of an authentic elephant pearl being sold on the open market? I sincerely doubt it.

So I am sceptical, but willing to be convinced, if convincing evidence is shown.

Someone making a claim is only someone making a claim, unless there is real proof-

Personally I think that is the belief or Intent that does the work, not the item itself- like say, Dumbo's feather, or the candle one may light in a prayer request. In this frame of reference, a faux elephant pearl would be fine for most.

Caitlin, you raise some excellent points! How would something as "valuable" as an honest-to-goodness elephant pearl ever be sold online or on the street?

And, if elephant pearls are real and so coveted, wouldn't elephants be on the seriously endangered species list with all the poachers out there trying to make a buck (not that they aren't already due to the ivory issue)? How come we see pictures of de-tusked elephants but not of the dental mayhem committed on the behalf of the hunt for the pearls?

Originally Posted by sumavapersians

A thing is very clear, elephant pearls do exist, even if they are really difficult to find out as are controlled by India or Ceylon governments as they are true national treasure.

Ignacio

Sorry, nothing is clear. Elephant pearls have not been shown to exist and are not controlled by Indian or Ceylonese governments. What is controlled is the sale and trade of banned items from animals on the endangered species list, for example, elephant tusk ivory and rhino horn, to mention a few. Government permission is not given lightly in India and I think that if you are caught trading or selling these banned items it is a three year prison term without applicable bail. I've also never heard of the Indian government saying that gaja mani are real and are any kind of national treasure.

Caitlin is right. IF these gaja mani are so rare and priceless, then the probability of owning one would be zero. Owning two??

Reminds me of the infamous red Lop Nur pearls, they are so rare and priceless that only only Z and the Dalai Lama have any. By the way, Caitlin and I happened to find some and they are now for sale.

Slreap

[Caitlin]

I'll trade my Lop Nurs for a gajimana.

Whoa wait a minute- you have The Lop Noors???!!! Did they come thru super-secret underground channels from super secret pearl agents and arrive at your doorstep under the cover of the deepest darkness??

...I'm cracking up over here...

Heck I'll trade my ulta-exclusive and very very rare collection of Cloud Pearls(tm) for the gajimana!

This is me starting a bidding war...lol...