[pernula]

Originally Posted by GemGeek

South Sea pearl producers in general are getting better. Paspaley said, and I've heard this from many sources for the last couple of years - baroques, but especially circles, are disappearing as they perfect their technique.

I agree with Caitlin and am disappointed that they are aiming for more round pearls rather than more beautiful pearls. I guess for some executives of a large company, beauty is only secondary to return on investment. As long as they perceive the general consumers care more about round and big, they would be aiming for those qualities.

In Jeremy's trip journal French Polynesia, New Zealand, and Australia..., he mentioned that one of them called him the Pearl-Guide fellow. So even though they are aware of us, the opinion of a group of pearl lovers who value orient, water and luster is probably still relatively minor compared to the actual market forces out there.

Thanks for the information again, Blaire.

Pernula

[Caitlin]

Hi Pernula
I think that there aren't enough with luminesencent luster (My words for orient plus water) to go around and they keep them. ALL of them. I think the market would grab ones colored like the above, if they were available here.

Right now Americans live in the bliss of ignorance when it comes to seeing the best Paspaley pearls...........Paspaley probably HOPEs that we don't start spreading word of the above around, because even if the market demands them, we won't get them here in the USA-

[GemGeek]

I heard about the strands at Tucson. Everyone was talking about them with awe. I heard they were enormous and silvery-white. My tiny friend Leslie tried them on, too, and she thought they were fabulous.

Most people are not pearl-obsessed like we are. We want orient in our pearls like other people want fire in their diamonds.

When we had the conference table full of pearls, we saw very little orient. Mostly they were round and smooth (and luminous), which are the traits most coveted by your average consumer. I've seen Paspaley pearls with orient in the past, but they were usually in designer pieces.

It would be wonderful if they could supply more pearls like the ones in the photos. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes! Maybe they're "listening".

Cheers,
GemGeek

[Sueki]

I've been fascinated by this orient / overtone thing, and, after an afternoon playing around with some Cortez pearls while wearing a Tahitian bracelet, I'm describing what I see.
The Tahitians have gorgeous rainbow colours that seem to emanate from the surface of the pearl, and the colour changes as the pearl moves around.
The Cortez pearls look like little sacs of liquid pearl that has different colours within the liquid.
Rather as if a bottle of silver grey pearl nail polish has had several opals dropped into it. You look through the glass bottle at the silvery grey, liquid pearl iridescence, and there are flashes of multi colours from within the liquid.
Move the bottle (pearl), and different colours appear from within.

[Josh]

Hi Sueki, I'm probably not the right one to be talking here as all I know are Tahitian pearls (which are similar to Cortez pearls) but what you are describing is what I think of as orient. I have been told on this board that it is NOT orient and instead the "overtones" of the pearl. What I can't make sense of is why something as magical and unique to pearls as that would have a crap name like overtone and not a beautiful one like orient? To me the two pearls below are examples of good (left) and not so good (right) orient.

[Slraep]

Originally Posted by Josh

What I can't make sense of is why something as magical and unique to pearls as that would have a crap name like overtone and not a beautiful one like orient? To me the two pearls below are examples of good (left) and not so good (right) orient.

Good example of a Tahitian pearl with peacock overtones and another without. An overtone radiates from the inner layer of a pearl. Orient is uniquely an iridescent SURFACE phenomenon that moves as you move the object. Orient contains all the colours of a rainbow(prismatic effect), while overtones are single colours although a Tahitian pearl can have more than one. For instance different variations of green(on top of green body colour even) , pink and gold at the same time. That's why we say "peacock overtones" and not "peacock orient". Some people say they can see orient in some select Tahitians, on top of overtones. That is very possible because as individuals, we have variations in how we see things. Anyone belonging to an astronomy club can tell you that not everyone can see things in the sky that others do and some people can see certain magnitudes of stars that others can't. That's very interesting, I think.

Orient is NOT unique to pearls by the way. You can find many, many examples of it in nature(look around,dude). Some of the forum members had a great thread going with gorgeous examples of iridescence(orient) other than pearls, a little while ago.

A dictionary does not make distinctions like "crap" words or "beautiful" words. Orient and overtones have distinct meanings.

Slraep

[Slraep]

Originally Posted by Sueki

The Cortez pearls look like little sacs of liquid pearl that has different colurs within the liquid.

Hi Sueki,

Cortez pearls are very interesting, aren't they? Whenever I wear mine, people tell me they look like balls of molten silver with colour flashes. They are the pearls I get complemented on the most. You are lucky to own some because they are truly rare. In the proper dictionary sense of the word.

I wish Douglas wasn't off farming and could tell us in more detail about what we see in Cortez pearls. Hmmm....perhaps I'll pester him. In Cortez pearls, in contrast to Tahitian pearls, you can see overtones AND orient, much more frequently. Lots of people do not see orient on Tahitians. Orient seems to materialize best on pearls that are not perfect spheres and have very thick nacre. Best orient I have seen was on a baroque freshwater(how's that for thick nacre, eh?). That pearl was one awesome piece of diffraction!

Slraep

[Sueki]

Hello Josh, Thanks for the info. and the pics.
Lovely pearls, both of them.
I am continually fascinated by this and by the differing effects from different pearls.
And differing effects from the same kinds of pearls, too.
For example, I have some beautiful grey Tahitians which have very delicate, subtle pinks and greens emanating.
And then dark Tahitians with strong colours that look totally different to the grey pearls.
I just feel sorry for my poor husband who is colour blind......
He only sees the rainbows through a magnifier and threat of a soccer ban on our t.v.

[Sueki]

Hello Slraep,
Yes, Cortez pearls are really something. I have some that have been waiting to be strung for ages.
I haven't done so yet because I can't stop just staring at them.
Finally I finished a bracelet this afternoon. And they are the only pearls that said husband has seen the flashes of colours without prompting.....

[Pearl_dreams]

I just came across this information about "water" or transparency in pearls in an article by Richard W. Wise (the article discusses transparency in gems generally):

"Historically crystal has also played a part in the discrimination of the finest pearls. Prior to the introduction of cultured pearls which are seeded with an opaque sphere ground from the shell of a freshwater mollusk, transparency or at least translucency was very much a characteristic valued in the finest pearls. In his Travels to India, Tavernier describes the world’s paramount pearl (circa 1670), a gem at that time in possession of a minor prince of Muscat. “This prince possesses the most beautiful pearl in the world, not by reason of its size for it only weighs 12 1/16 carats nor on account of its perfect roundness; but because it is so clear that you can almost see the light through it”6. Tavernier also repeatedly uses the term water to describe the quality of pearls."

6_Tavernier, J.B. Travels in India Vol II, 1676 edition, Ball, V., trans., Oriental Books Reprint Corporation, New Delhi, 1976 p.86

http://www.secretsofthegemtrade.com/articles_4_2.htm
(Note that this is only page 2 of the article; click the 'back' arrow at the bottom of the page to read the whole article.)

[knotty panda]

So my question is, can you see water in dark pearls, like a Tahitian? Wow, a natural Tahitian with water. I guess I should be asking, who can afford such a pearl?

Another question. Does water exhibit a color? Does it pick-up the overtone?

[jeanpn]

Please opine on this:

I, too, have tried, with minor success to understand what everyone is talking about regarding overtones, orient and water and the like. It hasn't helped me that people selling the pearls seem to have different opinions on the subject. Anyway, the dark pearl in these pictures appears to me to have orient, which I think the last photo captures. It is a dark gray pearl, but it flashes pink and green in the light. Would you agree that this is orient?

[Caitlin]

I think the colors in that pearl are overtones. Tahitians can have simple or more complex overtones. The light does not break like it does for iridescence (aka "orient")

I found a picture with good iridescence The pattern of light relecting in orient is all jumbled up, not in bands or circles. At least that is how I understand it.

Freshwater and akoya can also have overtones -ie white with rose or silver overtones are standard aand commonly found.

[pattye]

Hi Caitlin,

That's a great example! Do you have the photo handy of Dr. Tom's pearl with water? Having it here with the previous photo might be helpful. I still get confused sometimes too. Can't remember which thread it is in---Thanks again!

Pattye
so many pearls, so little time

[jeanpn]

Originally Posted by Caitlin

I think the colors in that pearl are overtones. Tahitians can have simple or more complex overtones. The light does not break like it does for iridescence (aka "orient")

I found a picture with good iridescence The pattern of light relecting in orient is all jumbled up, not in bands or circles. At least that is how I understand it.

Freshwater and akoya can also have overtones -ie white with rose or silver overtones are standard aand commonly found.

Just when I thought I had it.