[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

Although I don't mind you using that name, I remember that you got quite upset before when somebody else was using the term "purepearls" as a brandname for his goods and encouraged Amanda to sue over it. I have no intention to do any such thing but you may want to establish the term as a clearly defined standard. That is how I intended it to be used and I have not agreed to sell any brand name rights to anybody. The Pepsi people could not name their product Coco Cola no matter how much the products are alike because it is a proprietary name. I named a standard not a product.

Zeide

[jewelrybabie]

Originally Posted by jshepherd

The Akoya do still have a look that the freshadama do not (while the freshadama have a look the Akoya do not). But if the Akoya lover is not simply drawn to the metallic sheen and reflection, chances are good the freshadama will win over.

Jeremy,
You better be sure to send me a real fine necklace then. If the white ones don't do it maybe the beautiful lavender ones will.

[jshepherd]

Originally Posted by Zeide Erskine

Hi Jeremy,
Although I don't mind you using that name, I remember that you got quite upset before when somebody else was using the term "purepearls" as a brandname for his goods and encouraged Amanda to sue over it. I have no intention to do any such thing but you may want to establish the term as a clearly defined standard. That is how I intended it to be used and I have not agreed to sell any brand name rights to anybody. The Pepsi people could not name their product Coco Cola no matter how much the products are alike because it is a proprietary name. I named a standard not a product.
Zeide

Are you kidding me?! So when you called them 'freshakoya' as well, you would be claiming copyright. I am not even going to get into this argument with you, I refer to my first response. Your myrrh has been delivered.

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

Same standards to same application.

Anyway FedEx has just e-mailed me the myrrh is still in the mail. And the copyright also applies to the term "freshkoyas" that only pertained to your announcement that you found freshwater pearls that for most people would look just like akoyas before I had ever seen them. I don't quite see why you do not understand that your company would be subject to the same rules as others. There is one great difference, though, and that is that I am quite happy to see you pursuing this high standard and am not breathing fire down your back. Indeed, I would love, love, love to see grading standards for freshwater pearls made public and generally applied. That is one of my foremost reasons for posting here to begin with.

Zeide

[jshepherd]

Actually that FedEx message was delivered this morning, when the label was produced. Believe it or not, that was a Christmas present for you, something you had asked me for before, not exactly myrrh. Check the time stamp. The only reason it did not go out today is because I did not trust anyone else to drill it, so I had to do it myself.

I guess what I just do not get is why you are claiming such ownership over something that you and I discussed, well before you announced receiving a 'freshadama' strand from me, as being yours. Something you claimed could not exist, because you already owned the world's current production. I understand grandstanding to a point, but that strand was a gift to you. Sure, you sang the glory, but you did not create the line.

[jshepherd]

Originally Posted by Zeide Erskine

And the copyright also applies to the term "freshkoyas" that only pertained to your announcement that you found freshwater pearls that for most people would look just like akoyas before I had ever seen them.

Actually, I had referred to them as gem quality freshwater pearls, drilled and matched into strands. You were the one the drew the correlation to the Akoya.

[Valeria101]

Originally Posted by jshepherd

I would be ok with that, actually. If another company can do it, more power to them.

That is great, of course.

It does help that Freshadama are still a badly kept secret untouched by eBay word-mongers... or the like.

Seeing what said practice does to other word-of-mouth quality standards ('Imperial' topaz, 'Paraiba' tourmaline... whatever) has been quite intriguing. Perhaps the association with cultured pearls is out of place: just enough for a (non-contentious) academic pipe dream.

[jshepherd]

Originally Posted by Valeria101

That is great, of course.

It does help that Freshadama are still a badly kept secret untouched by eBay word-mongers... or the like.

Seeing what said practice does to other word-of-mouth quality standards ('imperial' topaz, 'Paraiba' tourmaline... whatever) has been quite intriguing. Perhaps the association is out of place: just enough for an academic pipe dream.

eBay is one reason I filed a trademark for the term 'freshadama'. To date, there is only one seller that has used the name on eBay to refer to standard freshwater pearls, but in such an inept way I left it alone. Because of the trademark the name will always be protected online, that is something I can personally guarantee. The name 'freshadama' is owned by Pearl Paradise, and can only be used to describe a specific grade of freshwater pearls with permission. It is very enforceable, and I plan to enforce it when and where necessary. You really have no choice online. We have gone after groups who have plagiarized our pictures and text in the past, like PeerlessPearls.com (now defunct), AlohaPearls.com (still operating, but with no respect from me), and many eBay sellers, and would do the same thing for abusers of the term freshadama.

[icevic]

I admire your passion and dedication, although I do not yet understand it. I think I will just have to order a Freshadama* set and find out for myself. It seems like we are at the start of something new and important in the pearl industry, and we don't know yet who will be the winners and losers.

Although I still don't know exactly what is the difference between AAA and Freshadama* or other "higher than AAA" sets.

*copyright, all rights reserved

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi All,

I thought that having transparent standards was the whole point of this game. From a marketing perspective one would also want to have consistent product line standards. For instance, Mikimoto is a company and a brand. The Mikimoto company presents their product lines by type and quality grade. PearlParadise is a company and a brand. All PearlParadise products are presented by type and quality grade exept that there is now an inconsistency with freshadama being a registered trademark. At first glance the standard balanced the gap between the akoya lines with hanadama (not a PearlParadise registered trademark) at the top. Anyway, registering the term as a trademark without even asking permission smells not quite kosher to me.

Zeide

[CiullaJewelers]

Respectfully, I must disagree with you Zeide.

Firstly, unlike a patent or copyright, a trademark has nothing to do with who first coined the phrase or created the logo. It is not protection of a creative or intellectual work. It is (from the USPTO website): "... a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others." So even if you did coin the term, the person who deserves legal ownership of the term would be the one who first marketed a product using that term.

Secondly, the term Hanadama IS a registered trademark. It is registered to: CULTURED AND FRESH WATER PEARL CORPORATION, THE CORPORATION CALIFORNIA 1248 BEL AIR ROAD LOS ANGELES CALIFORNIA 90077 and has been officially registered to them since November 26, 1985.

Thirdly, if the objective is to create transparent standards, then the only way to legally enforce these standards is for some company to step forward and trademark each grade level. Because groupings of letters such as A, AA, AA+, AAA, AAAA, AAAAAA, cannot be trademarked, there is no legal way to prevent ANYBODY from using them (even incorrectly, I might add). However, if a company steps forward and trademarks the term "Hanadama" and then establishes a set of rules by which a product can be labeled as such, only then can they enforce this standard. Of course there is a profit to be had, but that is the name of the game. In my industry (aerospace), our products are certified by a standard referred to as ISO 9000. And, needless to say, there is an extremely rich company that comes to visit every few years to re-certify us.

Therefore, if the desired goal is to create a universal grading standard that CANNOT legally be used incorrectly (such as calling a potato pearl AAAA+ on ebay), a company must step forward, gain legal ownership of the grading standard terminology, and then regulate it (most likely at a profit). Unfortunately, a transparent grading scale most likely will not come free of charge.

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Peter,

That, too, is fine with me as long as it is a registered transparent standard. I personally prefer to keep branding out of it, but if it results in better transparency in the market, I am all for it. What I would not appreciate is having the freshadamas become a brand name subject to brand dilution. Having independent freshadama certification would also be desirable. Maybe Jeremy can donate the rights to the GIA. That would be desirable.

Zeide

[Valeria101]

Originally Posted by Zeide Erskine

Maybe Jeremy can donate the rights to the GIA.

Didn't they just step aside pearl grading earlier this year citing some mysterious technical difficulties and disagreement with various stakeholders? Besides, grading synthetic diamonds should take all the good folks' time Instead, AGTA, GAAJ, SSEF, GUBELIN come to mind... It is unusual for any lab to do quality grading (aside diamond grades), but a couple do it already for anything but pearls. 'Wonder if this forum does not include feelers from lab's side already: doesn't it?

[CiullaJewelers]

I wanted to add a hypothetical way that a legally enforceable grading scale could come to be. (And I'm not trying to poke fun or be disrespectful. I'm just being light hearted!)

If one were so inclined, they could form a non-profit (or for-profit) organization called "The Erskine Organization" and then internationally trademark the terms, "Erskine Scale," "Erskine Pearl Scale," and "Zeide." They could then create a scale consisting of 1-10 "Zeides." For example, a poor pearl might be 1 Zeide and an excellent pearl might be 10 Ziedes.

Then, The Erskine Organization could hire and train a team of inspectors who certify pearl wholesalers and retailers, and then license them to label their products using the Erskine Pearl Scale. However, fees must be paid to this organization to cover the employment costs of inspectors and legal costs of enforcement (among other things).

If there are retailers or wholesalers who begin labeling their product as being 1000 Zeides or otherwise incorrectly using the scale. The Erskine Organization would have full legal authority to send out a "cease and desist" letter, or eventually sue for damages (or licensing fees).

The biggest challenge is getting the community to universally accept and trust your scale as THE scale to use. After all, a GIA certification is simply a pretty laminated piece of paper. It's value is based on the trust one has in the GIA Corporation.

Outside of this basic scenario, I don't see the creation a universal grading system that cannot be misrepresented or used arbitrarily.

And for all of you entrepreneurs out there, there are a couple of dollars to be had if you can succeed in this scenario. Just look at THX, ISO, and UL...

[CiullaJewelers]

Originally Posted by Zeide Erskine

Maybe Jeremy can donate the rights to the GIA. That would be desirable.

I don't think that Jeremy should be expected to donate anything to an organization like GIA (or to any non-profit for that matter). Anyone he would donate it to would turn around and use it to make a pile of money for themselves; money to which he is equally entitled. I'm sure I don't need to tell you how easily a company can be labeled "non-profit," and still make a ton of money.