A misnomer?

[Joyful One]

I found this forum a few weeks ago and started reading up on pearls. All the talk of the freshadama pearls from pearl paradise was interesting and I decided to do a little bit of google research. I found something interesting that I thought you could discuss.
One this website -
http://www.pearlsonly.com/customercare/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=93
It says that freshadama are a misnomer because it comes from hanadama and dama is pearl in japanese. It expands more here - http://www.pearlsonly.com/customercare/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=92&nav=0,3,8
I mostly want to hear JShepard's view on this since I know his company is the only one selling these.

A question to Angela. I saw the article on the jpea tag, but on pearlsonly it says that the tag guarantees that the pearls are japanese akoya. Are they lying? When I asked in their chat the basically hung up on me. Do you have a link to your source?
http://www.pearlsonly.com/customercare/index.php?_m=knowledgebase&_a=viewarticle&kbarticleid=26&nav=0,3

[jshepherd]

Very interesting indeed...thank you for bringing this to my attention.

It says that freshadama are a misnomer because it comes from hanadama and dama is pearl in japanese.
Well, that statement is false. One would assume a company that travels to Japan "every month" to buy pearls would know how to say pearl in Japanese. It is shinju, not dama. Dama comes from "tama" and is simply a round object, like a ball. Also, the term freshadama is clearly a play on words, and the Japanese actually do produce round freshwater pearls - in Lake Kasumi ga Ura. I think the true misnomer is the phrase "Japanese Akoya Pearls" which blankets their Site.
http://www.pearl-guide.com/japanese-akoya-pearls.shtml
We decided to use the term freshadama simply because there are no other strands produced in large quantity like them. They simply do not compare to what merchants call AAA or even Gem. Zeide coined the phrase on this forum, and I really liked it. Mark my words, within the year everyone in the industry will know and use the term.

A question to Angela. I saw the article on the jpea tag, but on pearlsonly it says that the tag guarantees that the pearls are japanese akoya. Are they lying? When I asked in their chat the basically hung up on me. Do you have a link to your source?

I do not mind answering this for Stephen so I get the C&D instead of him;)
I am surprised to see that phrase on their Site. Stephen (from Angela Carol) is exactly right in his report. I did the fact checking myself. That phrase on pearlsonly is a complete untruth, and will likely be removed before most have a chance to read this post. Here is the source, by the way - the company in Japan that actually produces the blue tag:
http://www.japan-pearl.com/right/new-0.html
Check the last sentence of the first paragraph. We could send Mississippi freshwater pearls to them and they would receive the tag. I think Stephen's report clearly spells out why this tag is a waste of time and money to true pearl professionals.
http://www.pearl-guide.com/jpea-blue-tag.shtml

[Caitlin]

Hi Joyful one
Jeremy put up a picture of a Hanadama strand and next to it a CFW pearl strand that was of equal or better quality and ran a poll to see who could guess which one was which. Most people who answered the poll thought the freshwater strand was the Hanadama.

Here is the picture for those who haven't seen it. Which one is the Hanadama?

When you have a freshwater strand that looks better than a certified Hanadama, it deserves a special name.

So far the feedback on these is incredible. They set a new standard for gem quality- yes I said, gem quality, CFWP. So I say "Thanks" to that pearl place for spelling the name right. Now, any reader can Google the term and get right to the source!

[jshepherd]

You are right, Caitlin. I did not think of it that way! I should send a "thank you" note to "that" other seller. I should not let a pathetic stab bother me either, especially when it is accompanied by a novice-level answer to a perfectly good question.

[jshepherd]

Wow! That was quick. Just a few hours later and the whole "freshadama" thing was removed from PearlsOnly! That was like "Jason Borne" just returning to China from the USA - fast! They must have done their research in stat-mode or something. So do you think someone is out there watching this forum?! Guess we will have to keep an eye out to discuss what comes "next"!;)

[Caitlin]

Hi Jeremy
That is so funny. ..

Some Sunday AM thots-----

It is great to figure out who is watching this forum- Turns out all the major online dealers do.

Why? I think it is because this forum has managed to reach past just being a shill site for the folks who run it- it actually provides information and (heavens above!) controversy, when we all take sides on hot button issues. I think we broke our own records for numbers of people visiting during the pearl-plating issue, and it was hot, hot, hot! I could hardly wait to see what was going up next!

But somehow we all came out friends and our strongly voiced differences actually helped open up new perspectives, one of which was the first chance to buy the highest quality CFWP to ever come out of China so aptly named the “Freshadamas”.. .

Disclosure: I am not on anyone’s payroll! I do make and sell mostly pearl necklaces, but not online. I first stayed around here to get good answers to my questions. Now I still stay around for that, but also because this forum is the best source for all things pearl. Many dealers who are not officially linked to Jeremy and others here, can and have, posted here. We would welcome a differing statement from the above outfit to the forum- as long as it isn’t a personal attack.

OK now on to solving the, “How to grade pearls” controversy---- You have your Akoya scale, your Tahitian scale, how about using the Tavernier for high quality CFWP?..........

[jshepherd]

Great thoughts to go with morning O-cha (green tea), Caitlin! Any thoughts on the next debate? That was a great one, and probably one of the main reasons many who shadow do not post. If you go hunting without a weapon, or for that matter a leg to stand on, you will typically get eaten alive! Better to just stay home and watch the National Geographic channel:D

I have a little "something" going on as of this month which will open up the whole Akoya-nacre debate again! Unfortunately my ammo will not be ready for a couple more years;)

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

I am thrilled to hear an online vendor taking up the quality issue. Especially nacre thickness on marine pearls. What will be next? Untreated, tissue cultured marine pearls? Wouldn't that be fabulous. Soon the Mystiquery providers will have to source through you. Good luck and keep up the good work.

If you had a sarcastic bone in you, you might offer a Mystiquery option on your website with a Liberace style box, a patented frilly diamond pavé clasp and a 14k capital P stamping to string into the strand as a dangle. Of course, a numbered jewel passport with a photograph of the actual strand plus grading and a gold-embossed mock croc cover will be a must (or dare I say "Myst de Shepherd"). Let such optional Mystiquery package cost 9x the amount of the pearls. I don't think you'll sell many of them, but it sure will get a point across. :D

Zeide

[Caitlin]

Good AM Zeide and Jeremy


14k capital P stamping to string into the strand as a dangle. Of course, a numbered jewel passport with a photograph of the actual strand plus grading and a gold-embossed mock croc cover
After I quit laughing, it still think Zeide has a point. The Mystiquery option will fly, IMHO! I'd make the initials a distinctive interlocking PP, though!

[jshepherd]

To be the first US partially owned and operated Akoya pearl farm!

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Caitlin,

If you want to go into the logo thing o.k. But how about an anti-logo? Make the dangle oversized, diamond-pavéd and let it read BS. I recommend selling the anti-logo separately and have it attach with a spring ring clasp so sarcastically minded people can attach and detach it to their whim.

Zeide

[Caitlin]

Well, OK, but only if it costs a gazillion $$$! We must not lose the point here. Good Mystiquery depends on a truly inflated price.

[Caitlin]

Mr. Shepherd is a daring young man. I hope this venture is another milestone in an adventersome life. And I have a daughter.........;)

[mikehrz]

Funny, just the other day I was thinking that Mr. Shepherd needed to buy himself a pearl farm...

The page is taken down, but Google offers a "cache" function that I think you'll find very interesting.

[mikehrz]

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:mPEUNQatRk0J:www.pearlsonly.com/customercare/index.php%3F_m%3Dknowledgebase%26_a%3Dviewarticle% 26kbarticleid%3D92+freshadama&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4\

And

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:LE5iwIRYusMJ:www.pearlsonly.com/customercare/index.php%3F_m%3Dknowledgebase%26_a%3Dviewarticle% 26kbarticleid%3D93+freshadama&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=19

Edit : A link to the cached version works better. Sometimes it is better not to give some a right to complain.

[Joyful One]

Ok, I did it. I have a freshadama on the way! That pulling of those pages from Pearls Only.com basically answered my questions just as well as this forum.
Thanks for all your responses. I will let you know what I think when the strand comes in.

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

That is a nice picture of you. I am, however, somewhat puzzled. :rolleyes: Why are you only partially U.S. operated and owned. Oh, I get it, Your wife owns and operates 50% of you. Is that it?:D

Zeide

[jshepherd]

LOL:D
If that were the case I would have said 20/80:D I can see the post needs an edit!

[Satine De La Courcel]

LOL. I go away for the weekend nd miss all the fun...

I am glad the whole Freshdama issue has been cleared up (I hope)
ther will always be people "Lurking" on lists so do not let it bother you Jeremy it is not worth it. You do more for bringing pearl knowledge to the public than just about anyone. And for that my mom wants to "adopt you"... LOL

LOL


ASh

[Caitlin]

Hi Jeremy
I think the next big issue should be a discussion of grading gem quality CFWP.

The big thing is the luster on excellent CFWP cannot be properly described by the akoya scale. Akoyas have mirror, but the bead inside makes it impossible to have the depth of nacre needed for orient and/or water. And that is fine for the akoya market.

BUT the top quality CFWP do have orient, do not need “pinking” or other such enhancements. What they look like can’t be described by the akoya standard. It’s like describing a Neopolitan Mastiff with a Shih Tzu standard.

If they aren’t bleached and dyed white, then there will be shades of white, unlike most akoyas. And, funny thing, there already is a standard that can be used for these pearls- the old fashioned natural pearl standards- like say, Tavernier!

Clearly these are the first cultured pearls that can be judged by ancient standards applied to natural wild grown pearls! This is so major a break through and so few people realize it yet. This is the pearl I was asking for when I first started hanging out here.

Dear Readers! Take note of these Freshadama- this is the beginning of the earthquake in cultured pearls- the ground is shifting out from under the feet of bead-nucleated akoyas. And you heard it here first. Get your Freshadama quality strands before they hit their true market value. And I am not just pitching for Mr. Shepherd, I am telling you this is an investment you can never regret. One you can afford now and one which will cost far more in the future.

[youngster]

Your enthusiasm is contagious Caitlin! It would be very cool to have a freshwater grading scale. Why isn't there one already?

By the way, I just received one of Jeremy's 10-11mm freshadama strands. Holy Cow! It's spectacular! If my digitcal camera was presently working (long unfortunate story involving small children), I would post some photos of it, though I'm sure Jeremy has much better ones from his studio. Though, I personally wish that all the vendors would photograph at least some of their strands on living, breathing human models as it gives a much better sense of proportion and scale.

youngster

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Youngster,

I second that motion. It would even be more helpful to have the strands shown on both a 5-foot and a 6-foot model. Some vendors manage to recruit models of pixie proportions that are none too helpful for Valkyries like moi.

Zeide

[jshepherd]

Can you imagine the confusion if we were to try to grade per Tavernier? I am sure our French customers would appreciate it, but many others may getting confused with grain and carat approximations!

I do think it is important to note, however, even on the top quality freshwater pearls bleaching is still going to be part of the process. I firmly believe it brings out the beauty of pearls, and without any bleaching the ratios would just be too low from a merchant's standpoint.

[Zeide Erskine]

Hi Jeremy,

The pearls of Tavernier's time were also bleached, albeit only sun bleached. The Chinese pearl factories have already long ago abolished the Clorox-dunking technique in favor of hydrogen peroxide. Actually the results of sunbleaching are better and you do not get significant deproteinization which may later result in undesirable pearl growth which is always going to be lumpy, bumpy, and devaluing. Virtually all modern pearl bleaching treatments result in deproteinization (which is their whole point because the colored conchiolin is causing the pearl to be other than white to begin with). The long tradition of short-cultured pearls has created an expectation that the pearls are going to be worn out and tossed long before the hydrogen bridges in the conchiolin residue can reestablish themselves. If that happens, environmental calcium will start crystallizing on the edges of the conchiolin as it refolds and reaches the pearl surface. The result is pearl growth and a reversion to original color. Nabatee, sindaali, and jiwan are also fine pearl colors. They do not all have to be abiyadh. There is a lot to learn when one wants to bring back the old pearl standards. Anyhow, the freshadamas that I got from you were not deproteinized and thus probably not bleached.

Zeide

[Caitlin]

oops I posted this on the wrong thread....
Hi Jeremy
Well I can not argue the merits of any system, having not studied them- and I definately like sticking to grams etc. but it is clear we need to be able to grade luster and natural colors with more finesse. This is one I would like to see experts weigh in on though!

While it may be that many CFWP will continue to be bleached, I hope not all of them will be- If my untreated strand is any indication, some do not need it.

[jshepherd]

Yes, Caitlin. Those were completely unbleached. They were nice, but I could have made them even nicer.


They do not all have to be abiyadh. There is a lot to learn when one wants to bring back the old pearl standards. Anyhow, the freshadamas that I got from you were not deproteinized and thus probably not bleached.

I hate to tell you this, Zeide, but I believe I sent you one of the 8+ strands - they were all bleached. The only non-bleached freshadama were about 50 strands of the 7-8mm.

Well, I may be crazy, but just got a call from someone on the ground at JCK and I am now heading to the airport. No rest for the weary!

[Satine De La Courcel]

Caitlyn,

I agree there should be a grading system for FWP. It is amazing how just between the sores arround here how litle is really known about pearls! I found that some mid grade chain stires here were selling worse quality that what I use for beading in FWP I was astonished!


Cheers
Ash

[mikehrz]

It would be really interesting to see a detailed side-by-side comparison pic of unbleached freshadama and bleached freshadama, wouldn't it? (hint, hint)

[youngster]

I second that mikehrz! I'd love to see a discussion, along with photographs, of the processing that freshadama go through, though I understand it to be minimal.

[Joyful One]

OH MY GOODNESS (screams with delight!)!!!!!!!!!!! Utterly breathtaking! I have seen a lot of freshwater pearls in the past, but this is truly amazing! I can see my reflection like a mirror and they are just so, I can't explain it.
Thank you all for your inputs!

[youngster]

Hi Joyful One (so appropriately named, by the way!:) ),
Your reaction was similar to mine when I received my freshadama strands. (I have some in 8-9 mm and another in 10-11 mm). Please post your jewelers reaction. That should be fun! Also, what size did you end up with?

youngster

[Joyful One]

I got the 9/10mm necklace in a sixteen inch. I am thinking about the 10/11 now. What did you think about yours? I got the white strand but I am really thinking about the purple in a next size larger. And you best believe I am going to tell y'all what the jewelers think then I take this in!

[youngster]

My 10/11 mm white strand is stunning. My 8-9's are also in white and are also beautiful. That is the strand I compared to other jewelry store strands. (It is also the strand I took into my own independent appraiser and posted about in another thread. In a nutshell, he thought they were great.) However, there is something about the 10-11 mm. They're just bigger and just that much more beautiful. Can't say enough about them.

Regarding the lavender, I have purchased and returned a couple of different lavender strands, both AAA. Not because they weren't lovely but because I can't seem to decide if I like them with my very fair skin and very dark hair. (Think Italian.) I now have a lavender freshadama strand and am still deciding if its a keeper. So,think about your skin coloring and call and talk to Mia or Anna or Kirsten. There are "different" lavenders and they might be able to make some suggestions regarding which might be best for you.

[Caitlin]

Hi Youngster
I would really like to see which color you end up with-
Hi Joyful
Looks like you have a real heirloom strand and one you can wear a lot.

I am so glad to see the enthusiasm -and joy!- that a great string of pearls gives its wearer and I sure wish I could see pictures!

[youngster]

Hi Caitlin,
I'm definitely keeping the white strands but just trying to determine if I like this latest lavender strand, that has some bronze in it. If I can snap some photos this weekend, I'll try to post some.

youngster

[Pearls_by_Angela_Carol]

I do not mind answering this for Stephen so I get the C&D instead of him;)
...
Thank you for answering for me.. :D I don't really have anything to add to that response except that there are multiple sources for the information in my report - the link that was posted is just a good example since they are the ones that product the tags.

Joyful One - It is a shame that you were cut off when you asked if the information was true or false. Personally I would have taken that as the answer :)